WEBVTT NOTE generated from 2026_08_12_easter_mesage_2_confrontation_the_book_o.segments.json — do not edit NOTE asr=whisper_cpp/ggml-large-v3-turbo-q5_0 diar=sherpa-onnx-node grade=aligned NOTE overlapping speech is not detected by this diarizer 0 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.620 Daryl 1 00:00:07.880 --> 00:00:18.000 Cooper: Hey, everybody. This is Daryl Cooper. This is the Martyr Maid Podcast, and this is a special episode to celebrate Easter here in 2025. 2 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.030 Some of you 3 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:23.000 probably heard the Easter episode I did a couple 4 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:27.140 of years ago. If you haven't, I'll link it in the show 5 00:00:27.140 --> 00:00:27.140 notes. 6 00:00:27.100 --> 00:00:29.160 Or under whatever post happened 7 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:31.470 to bring you here. But today I want 8 00:00:31.470 --> 00:00:31.890 to talk 9 00:00:32.080 --> 00:00:33.900 about the book of Job. 10 00:00:33.900 --> 00:00:35.030 Those of you who 11 00:00:35.030 --> 00:00:49.590 are subscribers to the Martyr Maid sub-stack will be familiar with a lot of the themes and material in this episode. And I'd like to give a quick message to my Bible-believing listeners. I am going 12 00:00:49.590 --> 00:00:49.820 to be 13 00:00:50.040 --> 00:00:53.650 exploring different ways of thinking about the book of Job. 14 00:00:54.420 --> 00:01:00.180 And about God. And about the story told in the Gospels. And I understand 15 00:01:00.430 --> 00:01:01.930 that makes some people 16 00:01:01.940 --> 00:01:05.100 reflexively uncomfortable. 17 00:01:05.100 --> 00:01:05.210 I 18 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:11.960 would just ask you to approach this episode with a generous spirit. I'm going to talk 19 00:01:11.960 --> 00:01:18.060 about things that I've been working over and struggling with in my mind for years. And I haven't come close to figuring 20 00:01:18.370 --> 00:01:19.290 them out. I'm 21 00:01:19.420 --> 00:01:22.720 not trying to be your pastor. I'm not claiming to be 22 00:01:22.880 --> 00:01:22.880 and 23 00:01:22.890 --> 00:01:27.860 authority with some previously undisclosed truth about the Bible. 24 00:01:28.050 --> 00:01:28.050 I 25 00:01:28.090 --> 00:01:30.900 myself don't have 26 00:01:30.900 --> 00:01:34.190 much certainty about any of the things I'm about to talk 27 00:01:34.350 --> 00:01:34.850 about. I'm 28 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:41.010 trying to understand things that have always been very hard for me to wrap my head around, and I'm just going to share some of 29 00:01:41.010 --> 00:01:49.190 that with you here. So, even if the theology is unorthodox, the last thing I'm trying to do is lead anyone 30 00:01:49.190 --> 00:01:49.740 astray, 31 00:01:49.850 --> 00:01:49.850 or 32 00:01:49.930 --> 00:01:53.590 to ask anyone to accept my answers to these questions. Since even 33 00:01:53.590 --> 00:01:56.410 my answers might very well be different by next Easter. 34 00:01:56.630 --> 00:02:00.340 So here we go. I'm content to die 35 00:02:00.340 --> 00:02:02.410 for my beliefs. 36 00:02:02.630 --> 00:02:10.600 So cut off my head. And make me a martyr. The people will 37 00:02:10.700 --> 00:02:12.880 always remember it. 38 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:15.740 No. 39 00:02:15.990 --> 00:02:18.440 They will forget it. 40 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:19.290 Hell 41 00:02:19.290 --> 00:02:25.570 does exist God is a thought God is an idea It 42 00:02:25.570 --> 00:02:26.440 is a 43 00:02:26.480 --> 00:02:27.960 place 44 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:32.660 It is somewhere Hell does exist 45 00:02:32.660 --> 00:02:33.730 But its 46 00:02:33.740 --> 00:02:38.820 reference is to something that transcends all thinking 47 00:02:42.510 --> 00:02:44.460 Why must we tear 48 00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:49.420 ourselves apart for this small question of religion? This 49 00:02:49.420 --> 00:02:52.800 is from an article in 50 00:02:52.830 --> 00:02:55.910 New York Times, dated 51 00:02:55.910 --> 00:03:02.510 October 7th, 2018. Schoharie, New York. 52 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:03.690 The 53 00:03:04.290 --> 00:03:10.980 17 friends had all piled into a white stretch limousine for what was supposed to have been a birthday celebration at 54 00:03:10.990 --> 00:03:12.980 an upstate New York brewery, 55 00:03:12.980 --> 00:03:13.820 but they never 56 00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:15.910 reached their destination. The 57 00:03:15.910 --> 00:03:17.160 massive vehicle, 58 00:03:17.160 --> 00:03:25.190 speeding downhill on Saturday, approached the intersection of two highways that residents had long warned was notoriously 59 00:03:25.350 --> 00:03:26.790 dangerous, and 60 00:03:26.790 --> 00:03:27.430 in just a 61 00:03:27.430 --> 00:03:32.100 few seconds of terror, their worst fears were realized— 62 00:03:32.100 --> 00:03:32.330 The 63 00:03:32.510 --> 00:03:35.800 limousine lost control, careening through the intersection and 64 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:44.870 striking an empty car. The crash killed all 18 occupants of the limousine, including the driver, as well as two pedestrians, in 65 00:03:45.040 --> 00:03:52.100 an accident that left deep tire tracks in the ground and the small town about 40 miles west of Albany reeling. 66 00:03:52.470 --> 00:03:53.290 Four sisters, 67 00:03:53.290 --> 00:03:58.750 two brothers, and at least three young couples were among the dead. 68 00:04:00.220 --> 00:04:10.240 Jessica Kirby, 36, witnessed the crash, but when asked to describe the scene, she said, I don't want to. It's not something I want to think about. 69 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:10.650 How 70 00:04:10.930 --> 00:04:13.920 are we supposed to understand 71 00:04:14.620 --> 00:04:17.680 something like that? There's 72 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:19.180 a certain sense 73 00:04:19.310 --> 00:04:20.190 in which 74 00:04:20.190 --> 00:04:27.150 accidents unnerve us even more than murders or terrorism or deaths in 75 00:04:27.150 --> 00:04:27.760 war. 76 00:04:27.710 --> 00:04:28.020 And 77 00:04:28.400 --> 00:04:34.230 those latter three, they don't leave us at a loss over who was responsible or why it happened. 78 00:04:34.230 --> 00:04:35.190 Or at least 79 00:04:35.190 --> 00:04:35.930 what the 80 00:04:36.180 --> 00:04:38.130 proximate cause was. 81 00:04:38.130 --> 00:04:38.950 For the loved 82 00:04:38.950 --> 00:04:44.330 ones of the 20 people who died in that accident, though, things aren't 83 00:04:44.330 --> 00:04:49.730 so clear. You can blame the driver if you want. You can blame the limo company. 84 00:04:49.730 --> 00:04:50.360 You can blame 85 00:04:50.420 --> 00:04:52.310 the local government for not responding 86 00:04:52.340 --> 00:04:56.220 to residents' warnings that the intersection was dangerous and all that's 87 00:04:56.220 --> 00:04:56.570 fine. 88 00:04:56.760 --> 00:04:56.760 But 89 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.810 none of these is likely to satisfy the parents or 90 00:04:59.820 --> 00:05:01.170 siblings or spouses 91 00:05:01.190 --> 00:05:07.980 of the people in that limousine. One time many years 92 00:05:07.980 --> 00:05:08.540 ago, I 93 00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:23.770 was at a mall in a Hallmark shop looking for a birthday card. And standing near me was this woman and her friend, and the woman's cell phone rang. And so she answers it, totally normal, 94 00:05:23.770 --> 00:05:24.820 "Hello." 95 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:25.600 And then she 96 00:05:25.780 --> 00:05:28.870 stopped walking, stopped moving altogether. And 97 00:05:28.870 --> 00:05:29.530 she and 98 00:05:29.530 --> 00:05:31.880 the caller exchanged a 99 00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:35.910 few short sentences back and forth. And 100 00:05:35.910 --> 00:05:36.900 then she just 101 00:05:36.900 --> 00:05:44.770 collapsed to the floor, sobbing like I've never seen an adult sob before or since. Inconsolable. So 102 00:05:44.770 --> 00:05:46.840 I hung around in case there 103 00:05:47.100 --> 00:05:48.040 was something 104 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:51.680 I could do to help. Or maybe it just felt uncomfortable. 105 00:05:51.990 --> 00:05:55.700 inappropriate to leave and go about my day like nothing had happened. 106 00:05:55.880 --> 00:05:55.940 And a 107 00:05:55.950 --> 00:06:06.540 little later, the woman's friend told me that that phone call, she had just found out that her husband and her only son, her only child, had been killed in a hit and 108 00:06:06.540 --> 00:06:09.110 run. Now, there are people 109 00:06:09.230 --> 00:06:15.810 out there listening, I know, who don't have to be told how these 110 00:06:15.810 --> 00:06:16.900 people felt. 111 00:06:17.150 --> 00:06:18.760 Because I know many of you 112 00:06:18.760 --> 00:06:19.960 have been there. 113 00:06:19.970 --> 00:06:20.810 One of my 114 00:06:21.110 --> 00:06:28.470 best friends is Daniele Bolelli, the creator of The Great History on Fire and Drunken Taoist podcasts. He has 115 00:06:28.470 --> 00:06:29.710 a beautiful and 116 00:06:29.900 --> 00:06:31.470 brilliant daughter named 117 00:06:31.910 --> 00:06:35.430 Isabel, who's high school age now. But 118 00:06:35.430 --> 00:06:36.580 years ago, 119 00:06:36.580 --> 00:06:42.080 very shortly after Isabel was born, and Daniele's written 120 00:06:42.080 --> 00:06:44.810 and spoken about this in public, so I hope I'm 121 00:06:44.990 --> 00:06:45.650 not speaking out 122 00:06:45.740 --> 00:06:48.450 of school, um... 123 00:06:48.880 --> 00:06:53.990 Shortly after Isabel was born, her mother, who was young and healthy 124 00:06:53.990 --> 00:07:09.880 and beautiful, and if she captured Daniele's heart, she must have been pretty amazing in a lot of ways, was diagnosed with cancer. It progressed very quickly, and within months, she was gone. 125 00:07:09.890 --> 00:07:11.580 And Daniele was left 126 00:07:11.580 --> 00:07:16.680 to figure out how to raise a baby daughter alone in his grief. 127 00:07:17.790 --> 00:07:18.120 Thank you. 128 00:07:18.210 --> 00:07:19.060 To his 129 00:07:19.470 --> 00:07:26.740 credit, and to Savannah's, and to the credit of Isabel's nature, he did a great job, a really, really great 130 00:07:27.190 --> 00:07:29.480 job, and not just under the circumstances grading 131 00:07:29.780 --> 00:07:29.830 on a 132 00:07:29.840 --> 00:07:33.790 curve, but by any standard you could put him up against. But 133 00:07:33.790 --> 00:07:35.130 I've mostly 134 00:07:35.130 --> 00:07:41.440 avoided discussing the topic with him over the years of our friendship. Anytime 135 00:07:41.440 --> 00:07:42.210 I think of 136 00:07:42.210 --> 00:07:47.010 mentioning it in the context of a conversation... 137 00:07:47.010 --> 00:07:47.150 It 138 00:07:47.450 --> 00:07:52.900 feels like I'm about to walk on sacred ground with mud all over my cheap tennis shoes. And so I just turn 139 00:07:52.900 --> 00:07:54.420 around and head the other way. I 140 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:55.940 think I also 141 00:07:55.940 --> 00:07:58.260 avoid it because, 142 00:07:58.270 --> 00:07:59.830 well, not so much to 143 00:07:59.830 --> 00:08:07.030 protect Danieli's sensitivities. He's a very open-hearted person. He would talk about it with me if I brought it up. 144 00:08:07.030 --> 00:08:08.520 But it's also just 145 00:08:08.520 --> 00:08:13.170 because talking, it just stops me in my tracks. I don't 146 00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:13.610 think I 147 00:08:13.610 --> 00:08:15.960 could handle something like that. 148 00:08:16.940 --> 00:08:17.330 And 149 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:23.260 people say everyone thinks that And then it happens And you just handle it Because you have no choice But I don't know 150 00:08:23.260 --> 00:08:24.150 The voice 151 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:29.740 in my head warns me That it would probably push me past my limit And 152 00:08:30.280 --> 00:08:31.520 nothing quite 153 00:08:31.520 --> 00:08:45.680 like that has happened to me But I'm very close with Daniele And when someone you love experiences that You don't gain any insight Into what it's like exactly But you can't just 154 00:08:46.050 --> 00:08:51.670 abstracted away either. You can't pretend like it's just something that happens in newspaper headlines to 155 00:08:51.670 --> 00:08:52.890 other people 156 00:08:52.890 --> 00:08:53.610 but not 157 00:08:53.610 --> 00:09:06.720 to your wife or your child. From now on you know it's real and you feel a new visceral fear of things that haven't happened yet and might not 158 00:09:06.940 --> 00:09:07.950 happen. But 159 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.600 you understand down to your bones 160 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:11.050 that 161 00:09:11.060 --> 00:09:11.400 That 162 00:09:11.650 --> 00:09:14.910 you're not on any lists for exemptions or special treatment. 163 00:09:15.510 --> 00:09:18.880 When these things happen 164 00:09:19.400 --> 00:09:20.620 to us, the 165 00:09:20.910 --> 00:09:21.720 most natural 166 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:23.420 thing in the world is 167 00:09:23.490 --> 00:09:23.970 to ask 168 00:09:23.970 --> 00:09:25.580 who to blame. And 169 00:09:25.910 --> 00:09:26.560 when an answer 170 00:09:26.560 --> 00:09:32.300 doesn't immediately present itself, we often start looking up at the sky to find the culprit. 171 00:09:32.890 --> 00:09:33.700 Because if no 172 00:09:33.700 --> 00:09:40.120 one's to blame, if the answer's really just, these things happen... 173 00:09:40.100 --> 00:09:40.590 then you 174 00:09:40.750 --> 00:09:47.030 have to confront the cold, empty meaninglessness of this world that we've all been born into. Which 175 00:09:47.030 --> 00:09:47.570 I think is 176 00:09:47.670 --> 00:09:53.010 probably harder than living in a world run by a capricious or inscrutable God. The 177 00:09:53.350 --> 00:09:55.050 book of Job is one of the oldest 178 00:09:55.770 --> 00:09:59.570 meditations we have on this question. And 179 00:09:59.570 --> 00:09:59.920 for my 180 00:10:00.010 --> 00:10:02.730 money, it's never been surpassed by imitators 181 00:10:02.730 --> 00:10:06.520 or alternatives in thousands of years since it was written. 182 00:10:07.170 --> 00:10:07.780 Okay. 183 00:10:07.940 --> 00:10:09.160 To me, Job is 184 00:10:09.210 --> 00:10:13.760 the most morally difficult book of the entire Bible. It's 185 00:10:14.590 --> 00:10:14.780 frequently 186 00:10:14.780 --> 00:10:19.990 trotted out by skeptical non-believers to make a mockery of God. And 187 00:10:19.990 --> 00:10:20.320 to be 188 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:29.060 honest, it's no wonder. The story of Job seems, at face value, to invalidate many of the core claims made by 189 00:10:29.060 --> 00:10:32.080 Christians and Jews about the character and purpose of God. 190 00:10:33.310 --> 00:10:33.540 But, 191 00:10:33.490 --> 00:10:34.130 Many 192 00:10:34.880 --> 00:10:40.530 believers just avoid the questions raised by the book. And ironically 193 00:10:40.530 --> 00:10:48.820 enough, I've learned as I've expressed this opinion publicly before, ironically enough they often take up the arguments of Job's 194 00:10:48.850 --> 00:10:49.890 friends, whom 195 00:10:49.890 --> 00:10:50.990 God at the end 196 00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:54.300 of the story explicitly says were wrong 197 00:10:54.510 --> 00:10:55.490 about him. 198 00:10:55.490 --> 00:10:56.630 Most of you 199 00:10:57.110 --> 00:11:03.450 will be familiar with the general outline of the story of Job, but for those who are not, here's a quick 200 00:11:03.550 --> 00:11:22.290 recap. Starts out, God is holding court in heaven, and the heavenly beings are taking turns presenting themselves before the throne in the manner of ministers making their reports to an ancient Near Eastern king. One of the ministers 201 00:11:22.290 --> 00:11:22.440 is 202 00:11:22.650 --> 00:11:23.070 Satan. 203 00:11:23.020 --> 00:11:23.150 At 204 00:11:23.250 --> 00:11:31.600 least, that's how we transliterate the word. In reality, the capitalization that we're familiar with, when we see Satan written down, 205 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:45.900 that makes it a proper noun, that was added by modern translators, since there were no capital or lowercase letters in the ancient texts, and in the original it comes with the definite article attached, so it actually reads "the Satan," 206 00:11:45.900 --> 00:11:46.260 which 207 00:11:46.260 --> 00:11:50.550 means "the adversary" or "the accuser." 208 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:51.790 So the 209 00:11:52.130 --> 00:11:53.980 Satan presents himself 210 00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:55.280 before the Lord And 211 00:11:55.280 --> 00:11:55.740 God 212 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:02.340 calls him out Boasting of this man called Job The most righteous and blameless 213 00:12:02.340 --> 00:12:07.370 servant of God on earth He basically says, hey, accuser You 214 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:08.020 like to go 215 00:12:08.020 --> 00:12:09.980 around accusing people I'd 216 00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:11.180 like to see you try 217 00:12:11.260 --> 00:12:15.010 to poke holes in this guy Good luck with 218 00:12:15.130 --> 00:12:15.900 that 219 00:12:15.860 --> 00:12:16.470 and 220 00:12:16.470 --> 00:12:29.000 so, as intended, the Satan is provoked, and he replies, well, sure. Of course, he behaves himself. You've given him everything. He's rich, respected, healthy. He's a big 221 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:32.730 family. Why wouldn't he be singing your praises? 222 00:12:32.730 --> 00:12:33.440 Give a dog a 223 00:12:33.570 --> 00:12:38.870 bone every time he barks at the moon, and he'll bark all night, but righteous? 224 00:12:39.020 --> 00:12:39.310 How would 225 00:12:39.820 --> 00:12:40.640 you know? 226 00:12:40.640 --> 00:12:42.470 He tells God 227 00:12:42.470 --> 00:12:45.270 that if he stops the gravy 228 00:12:45.530 --> 00:12:45.880 train 229 00:12:46.150 --> 00:12:46.150 Thy 230 00:12:46.230 --> 00:12:49.140 servant Job will curse thee to thy face. 231 00:12:49.520 --> 00:12:50.250 Now, one 232 00:12:50.250 --> 00:12:58.190 interesting thing I've noticed about this opener is that in the pop culture version of the story, you know, the one 233 00:12:58.210 --> 00:12:58.940 that people 234 00:12:58.940 --> 00:13:07.740 just kind of know, even if they've never actually gone and read the book of Job, it's often imagined that the Satan was the one who challenged God and 235 00:13:07.890 --> 00:13:09.880 provoked him to abandon Job. 236 00:13:09.900 --> 00:13:10.630 But in fact, 237 00:13:10.630 --> 00:13:14.860 the devil was just passing through. It was God who called him out. 238 00:13:14.860 --> 00:13:15.020 And 239 00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:16.510 started the whole ball rolling. 240 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:18.400 And so God 241 00:13:19.190 --> 00:13:22.530 accepts the devil's challenge. He says, I'll tell you what. Do 242 00:13:22.700 --> 00:13:23.590 whatever you 243 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:31.700 want to him. Except don't go cut his arms and legs off or something. You have free reign. Just don't touch his physical body. 244 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.990 How to interpret this has 245 00:13:35.130 --> 00:13:43.920 been a subject of debate probably ever since the book's author first started handing out his manuscripts for friends to proofread. 246 00:13:44.750 --> 00:13:45.090 The 247 00:13:45.420 --> 00:13:51.070 fact that God sets the rules over what the Satan can and cannot do, that's 248 00:13:51.170 --> 00:13:52.010 a clue that 249 00:13:52.010 --> 00:13:55.910 God remains in control of this situation. 250 00:13:56.710 --> 00:13:57.140 Everything that 251 00:13:57.260 --> 00:14:00.640 happens is under his supervision. The 252 00:14:01.070 --> 00:14:01.500 Satan has 253 00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:10.610 not gone rogue, and though he may be the one about to inflict the damage, he is acting as God's agent when he does it. 254 00:14:12.430 --> 00:14:13.960 Now, I like to study 255 00:14:14.190 --> 00:14:18.160 the history behind the biblical texts as much as the 256 00:14:18.260 --> 00:14:18.760 next 257 00:14:18.760 --> 00:14:29.310 guy. And I know the Old Testament was edited and redacted and spliced together over centuries, and only received its final polish during probably 258 00:14:29.310 --> 00:14:38.140 Hellenistic times. But all the stuff about different authors and different sources, all that's come to us as a result of modern scholarship. 259 00:14:38.130 --> 00:14:38.350 And 260 00:14:38.730 --> 00:14:43.070 Christianity was given its shape by men who didn't know anything about any of that. 261 00:14:43.070 --> 00:14:43.710 They took 262 00:14:43.710 --> 00:14:45.690 the Bible as they found it. 263 00:14:45.690 --> 00:14:46.990 When someone in the 264 00:14:46.990 --> 00:15:00.750 Middle Ages was told that God created the universe in seven days, even though days are a way of counting the Earth's rotation relative to the sun, and the sun and moon weren't created until the fourth day, whatever. There 265 00:15:01.020 --> 00:15:06.610 might have been some edgy cleric saying you can't take it literally, but the vast majority of people... 266 00:15:06.850 --> 00:15:06.850 Just 267 00:15:06.920 --> 00:15:22.930 read the story as it was written. Since that's the way it was approached by the people who shaped the religion that is the bedrock of our civilization, I like to switch out of academic mode and into religious mode and take the 268 00:15:22.930 --> 00:15:31.900 story seriously, on its own terms, the way it's written, the way our ancestors did. And so when you do that, when you take the story at face 269 00:15:31.900 --> 00:15:34.870 value, you're confronted with questions. 270 00:15:35.210 --> 00:15:38.790 that seem kinda silly from an academic perspective. 271 00:15:39.150 --> 00:15:40.870 I have 272 00:15:40.870 --> 00:15:48.230 this somewhat embarrassing habit where every so often I'll find myself on, 273 00:15:48.230 --> 00:15:58.060 you like the passive, the use of the passive there, I find myself on the Quora website. You know, it's where people can ask questions and other people answer them and you 274 00:15:58.120 --> 00:15:59.640 rate the answers and they rise 275 00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:00.000 to the 276 00:16:00.070 --> 00:16:03.210 top and so forth. So I'll find myself on Quora 277 00:16:03.420 --> 00:16:04.060 Reading very 278 00:16:04.060 --> 00:16:09.450 detailed explanations and debates of which fictional characters would win in a fight. 279 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:10.180 Who'd win 280 00:16:10.180 --> 00:16:15.690 between Doctor Strange and Rae Slyne Magir from the Dragonlance novels? 281 00:16:15.890 --> 00:16:16.460 Or between 282 00:16:16.460 --> 00:16:19.690 Doctor Manhattan and pre-retcon Beyonder? 283 00:16:19.850 --> 00:16:21.090 Or what if Golden Age 284 00:16:21.090 --> 00:16:26.710 Superman and World Breaker Hulk both threw a punch and hit each other's fist? 285 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:28.150 The answers are Rae 286 00:16:28.150 --> 00:16:31.800 Slyne, Beyonder, and Superman, by the way. 287 00:16:32.640 --> 00:16:33.000 Well, 288 00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:35.080 sometimes I'll look up from my screen and 289 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:37.640 realize I've been reading this stuff for over an hour. 290 00:16:37.640 --> 00:16:37.900 And I 291 00:16:37.900 --> 00:16:40.300 don't even read comic books. I barely 292 00:16:40.300 --> 00:16:41.060 read them 293 00:16:41.060 --> 00:16:42.320 as a kid. And I've never 294 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:50.100 read any of the comic books featuring a lot of the characters I spend all this time reading about on Quora. And so I guess I just enjoy 295 00:16:50.170 --> 00:16:55.100 taking a fictional story on its own terms. And getting into it. Getting into 296 00:16:55.110 --> 00:16:55.640 that world. 297 00:16:55.640 --> 00:16:56.600 And so if you're 298 00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:00.860 someone who sees the Bible as a work of fiction, that's fine. 299 00:17:01.100 --> 00:17:02.930 Just pretend this episode is one of those 300 00:17:03.050 --> 00:17:03.770 quora posts. 301 00:17:04.020 --> 00:17:04.890 And so 302 00:17:04.890 --> 00:17:11.030 anyway, among those questions that you're faced with almost right 303 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:11.450 away 304 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:12.480 are the apparent 305 00:17:12.550 --> 00:17:17.070 contradictions regarding the limits of God's knowledge and power. 306 00:17:17.320 --> 00:17:18.660 If God is, as 307 00:17:18.670 --> 00:17:28.110 most believers suppose, omnipotent, which means all-powerful, and omniscient, which means all-knowing, 308 00:17:28.060 --> 00:17:28.270 he 309 00:17:28.590 --> 00:17:33.420 could just take a peek into the future and know how this game with Job is going to play out. So 310 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:34.140 what's he 311 00:17:34.150 --> 00:17:39.420 trying to prove? And to whom is he trying to prove it? 312 00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:41.520 Are we to believe 313 00:17:41.520 --> 00:17:49.080 that God cares what the devil thinks? That he cares so much that he's willing to inflict torture 314 00:17:49.080 --> 00:17:57.120 on his most loyal servant just to make his point? Or, and here I might say, 315 00:17:57.100 --> 00:18:00.000 teeter a little too close to the edge of blasphemy for 316 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:00.380 some, 317 00:18:00.620 --> 00:18:01.220 has the devil 318 00:18:01.340 --> 00:18:07.240 managed to introduce doubt into God's own mind regarding Job's fidelity? 319 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:11.530 For God to doubt would 320 00:18:11.530 --> 00:18:13.960 mean placing limits on his omniscience. 321 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:14.650 There's no 322 00:18:14.650 --> 00:18:17.340 room for doubt when you know everything. 323 00:18:17.760 --> 00:18:19.510 But the prologue of 324 00:18:19.570 --> 00:18:21.840 the book of Job itself 325 00:18:22.050 --> 00:18:22.580 at least 326 00:18:22.580 --> 00:18:26.160 seems to imply that God might be subject 327 00:18:27.090 --> 00:18:34.820 some kind of limits. It might seem like pedantic nitpicking, but when the devil makes his presentation, God asks him, 328 00:18:34.820 --> 00:18:42.510 "Where have you been?" Satan tells him that he's been wandering to and fro about the earth and traveling upon it, 329 00:18:42.580 --> 00:18:43.290 a fact 330 00:18:43.330 --> 00:18:46.180 which God ought to have known without 331 00:18:46.210 --> 00:18:47.890 asking. He then 332 00:18:47.900 --> 00:18:51.740 asks a follow-up question, "Have you 333 00:18:52.030 --> 00:18:54.740 seen my servant Job?" 334 00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:54.760 which, again, 335 00:18:54.750 --> 00:18:59.910 omniscience should have made unnecessary. The very 336 00:18:59.910 --> 00:19:15.080 fact that the Satan makes his challenge in the first place seems to imply that the devil, at least, thinks that there might be room for doubt or uncertainty in God's mind. The great psychologist Carl Jung naturally interprets the text in 337 00:19:15.860 --> 00:19:24.560 psychological terms, and in his great little book, Answer to Job, he suggests that the adversary, the accuser, the Satan, is the embodiment 338 00:19:24.530 --> 00:19:24.950 or the 339 00:19:25.010 --> 00:19:28.780 mythical personification of God's doubt. 340 00:19:28.870 --> 00:19:30.430 He's the voice in 341 00:19:30.430 --> 00:19:35.930 God's head whispering to him that you can't trust these people. They're 342 00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:36.650 not really 343 00:19:36.650 --> 00:19:38.420 what you think they are. 344 00:19:38.450 --> 00:19:40.110 And the whole scene 345 00:19:40.110 --> 00:19:42.900 before the heavenly throne is an 346 00:19:43.050 --> 00:19:47.880 argument God is having with himself over whether or not his most beloved 347 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:49.440 servant is really sincere. 348 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:51.870 So, in 349 00:19:52.100 --> 00:19:58.730 any case, the devil takes his marching orders and he just goes ham on poor Job. That same day, 350 00:19:59.010 --> 00:19:59.010 some 351 00:19:59.040 --> 00:20:02.510 of his children are sharing a meal in the tent of their eldest 352 00:20:02.510 --> 00:20:03.040 brother 353 00:20:03.040 --> 00:20:10.820 when they're set upon by nomadic raiders who kill all of Job's sons who were present and carry off all the daughters who 354 00:20:10.870 --> 00:20:12.050 were there into 355 00:20:12.050 --> 00:20:17.900 slavery. Lest Job consider this some random disaster, the Satan strikes again, 356 00:20:17.900 --> 00:20:19.160 almost immediately. 357 00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:19.460 Even 358 00:20:19.550 --> 00:20:36.870 as the messenger was delivering the bad news about his children, another servant comes running up and says that lightning had come down from the sky and burned up even more of his children, as well as all of his sheep. And then another servant came. Chaldeans attacked the camels and 359 00:20:36.980 --> 00:20:41.210 took them and killed your boys, and only I escaped to tell you. 360 00:20:41.530 --> 00:20:42.590 And before this 361 00:20:42.590 --> 00:20:44.750 third messenger says, 362 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:44.920 was 363 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:52.680 finished with his report, a fourth rushed up to tell Job that a great wind had collapsed the walls of a house unto all of his 364 00:20:52.800 --> 00:20:54.600 remaining children. 365 00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:56.760 So all of Job's 366 00:20:56.760 --> 00:21:02.100 wealth and all of his possessions were destroyed or carried off, 367 00:21:02.360 --> 00:21:02.360 and 368 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:06.440 every one of his children had been massacred by the devil because 369 00:21:06.590 --> 00:21:06.820 of a 370 00:21:06.850 --> 00:21:10.280 bet he made with God after God called him out. 371 00:21:11.890 --> 00:21:12.850 After the 372 00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:17.890 final messenger finishes his report, Job tears his robes 373 00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:25.690 and lays down with his face in the dust. But despite it all, he not only does not curse God, he blesses him. 374 00:21:25.690 --> 00:21:37.450 Naked came I from my mother's womb, and naked will I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away. May the name of the Lord be blessed. 375 00:21:38.690 --> 00:21:39.160 So 376 00:21:39.780 --> 00:21:48.990 far, the patience of Job, to quote the well-known idiom, has remained intact. So score one point for God, zero 377 00:21:48.990 --> 00:21:54.110 for the devil, and like negative one million points for poor old 378 00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:56.240 Job. So now the scene 379 00:21:56.270 --> 00:22:00.870 cuts back to the heavenly throne room. And while Job is down in the 380 00:22:00.870 --> 00:22:03.550 dirt, grieving over his catastrophe, 381 00:22:03.550 --> 00:22:06.590 God is exultant. He's 382 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:08.190 celebrating. 383 00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:08.330 He 384 00:22:08.510 --> 00:22:09.900 tells the devil to behold 385 00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:15.150 my servant Job is held fast to his innocence, even after you 386 00:22:15.150 --> 00:22:19.030 incited me to ruin him without cause. 387 00:22:19.370 --> 00:22:20.650 Many Jewish and 388 00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:37.950 Christian apologists join Job's friends who will arrive shortly in insisting that surely Job must have done something to deserve his suffering, if only carrying the stain of original sin. 389 00:22:37.950 --> 00:22:38.310 But 390 00:22:38.620 --> 00:22:43.900 God seems to reject their defense of his own actions. And he confirms here that he has 391 00:22:43.900 --> 00:22:45.930 destroyed Job for no reason. 392 00:22:45.930 --> 00:22:48.400 Well, the Satan's not 393 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:52.980 impressed. The old devil says, so what? A man 394 00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:53.720 will give 395 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:54.920 up everything he 396 00:22:55.020 --> 00:22:57.570 has to save his own skin. Give 397 00:22:57.790 --> 00:22:58.670 me the power 398 00:22:58.670 --> 00:23:01.110 over his flesh and bones and 399 00:23:01.110 --> 00:23:03.580 he'll surely curse you to your face. And 400 00:23:03.780 --> 00:23:05.300 so God says, 401 00:23:05.300 --> 00:23:07.070 fine. Fine. 402 00:23:07.020 --> 00:23:07.170 Do 403 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:09.920 whatever you want. Just don't kill him. 404 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:10.930 A command 405 00:23:10.930 --> 00:23:15.730 which reaffirms that it is God and not the devil who is in 406 00:23:15.790 --> 00:23:16.950 control here. And 407 00:23:17.050 --> 00:23:18.600 so once again, the 408 00:23:18.600 --> 00:23:21.980 accuser seems to have manipulated God 409 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:27.810 into attacking Job for no reason at all. As again, God himself has just admitted. And 410 00:23:27.910 --> 00:23:29.160 so now the devil 411 00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:32.120 strikes Job's flesh and blood. 412 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:35.010 covering his whole body from the top 413 00:23:35.010 --> 00:23:39.460 of his head to the soles of his feet with excruciatingly painful boils. 414 00:23:39.930 --> 00:23:41.410 Bereft, Job sits 415 00:23:41.410 --> 00:23:49.920 down in the ashes of his ruined house, bitterly weeping and scratching his running sores 416 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:51.970 with a shard of broken pottery. His 417 00:23:52.120 --> 00:23:53.360 own wife, the 418 00:23:53.360 --> 00:23:55.710 only member of his family 419 00:23:55.870 --> 00:23:57.360 still alive, 420 00:23:57.360 --> 00:23:57.960 comes to 421 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.840 him and, speaking for the devil, says, 422 00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:01.840 How 423 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:07.700 long will you go on clinging to your innocence? Just curse God and die. 424 00:24:08.090 --> 00:24:10.300 Although 425 00:24:10.300 --> 00:24:11.780 Job had been a 426 00:24:12.100 --> 00:24:25.210 respected leader of his community, his misfortune has brought him into disrepute, since he lived at a time and among people who believed, as Job always had, that righteousness is rewarded, and anybody suffering 427 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:30.120 the terrible fate that had befallen Job must have secretly been engaged in some egregious evil. 428 00:24:31.490 --> 00:24:32.580 But there are 429 00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:33.070 three 430 00:24:33.070 --> 00:24:35.910 friends who have not quite abandoned him, 431 00:24:35.910 --> 00:24:36.610 and they 432 00:24:36.610 --> 00:24:38.910 come to sit and weep with Job 433 00:24:38.910 --> 00:24:40.710 over everything that's happened. 434 00:24:40.710 --> 00:24:41.400 They weep 435 00:24:41.980 --> 00:24:48.130 together for seven days without speaking a word, and then finally Job opens his 436 00:24:48.130 --> 00:25:00.590 mouth. "God damn the day I was born, and the night that forced me from the womb! Why couldn't I have died as they pulled me out of the 437 00:25:00.590 --> 00:25:00.990 dark? 438 00:25:00.980 --> 00:25:01.220 Why 439 00:25:01.340 --> 00:25:05.670 were there knees to hold me, breasts to keep me alive, if 440 00:25:05.820 --> 00:25:06.190 only I 441 00:25:06.190 --> 00:25:10.820 had been strangled or drowned on my way to the bitter light? 442 00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:12.750 And so begins 443 00:25:12.750 --> 00:25:15.210 Job's lament. 444 00:25:15.530 --> 00:25:16.860 He's still not 445 00:25:16.860 --> 00:25:18.600 cursed God, but 446 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.320 things are 447 00:25:19.320 --> 00:25:21.930 starting to get serious as this first part 448 00:25:21.930 --> 00:25:23.500 of the story comes to an end. 449 00:25:23.500 --> 00:25:24.180 And we find 450 00:25:24.190 --> 00:25:28.120 ourselves wondering, with a bit of trepidation, what he's going to say next. 451 00:25:30.260 --> 00:25:32.240 The story of Job is 452 00:25:32.290 --> 00:25:35.220 not original to the Bible, 453 00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:35.660 and is 454 00:25:35.730 --> 00:25:40.420 more likely a Biblical spin on a tale long known throughout 455 00:25:40.650 --> 00:25:46.760 the ancient Near East. A Sumerian and later Babylonian poem, commonly known as "The Poem of the 456 00:25:46.760 --> 00:25:54.060 Righteous Sufferer," or if the title is translated literally, "I will praise the Lord of Wisdom." 457 00:25:54.030 --> 00:25:54.340 have 458 00:25:54.500 --> 00:25:57.940 long drawn comparisons to the Book of Job, and they share enough 459 00:25:57.940 --> 00:26:04.160 characteristics with that Bible story that it's fairly safe to assume that the Bible story was pollinated by these 460 00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:13.140 earlier versions. Scholars sometimes refer to those two works as the Sumerian Job and the Babylonian Job, and both of them certainly 461 00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:16.160 predate the composition of the biblical story. The 462 00:26:16.280 --> 00:26:17.080 earliest 463 00:26:17.090 --> 00:26:19.860 version of the Sumerian work 464 00:26:20.350 --> 00:26:20.770 dates from 465 00:26:20.770 --> 00:26:23.530 around 1700 B.C., 466 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:27.100 about seven centuries before the founding of ancient Israel. 467 00:26:27.310 --> 00:26:27.370 The 468 00:26:27.370 --> 00:26:33.020 Babylonian version is more firmly dated to the reign of King Nazi Muratash 469 00:26:33.020 --> 00:26:38.140 of the Kassites, who reigned from 1307 to 1282 BC. 470 00:26:38.360 --> 00:26:39.520 The original 471 00:26:39.620 --> 00:26:41.170 version records 472 00:26:41.170 --> 00:26:43.730 the lament of Tabu Utu 473 00:26:43.730 --> 00:26:44.230 Bel, a 474 00:26:44.360 --> 00:26:47.560 prosperous official in the city of Nippur, 475 00:26:47.570 --> 00:26:47.990 And the 476 00:26:48.050 --> 00:26:55.980 later Babylonian version centers on a wealthy public official named Shubshi-Meshre-Shakhan. In each version 477 00:26:55.990 --> 00:27:01.230 the man is brought low and lodges a complaint against the injustice of 478 00:27:01.230 --> 00:27:02.650 his suffering. To 479 00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:14.510 Marduk, king of the gods of Babylon, Shubshi-Meshre-Shakhan sings: "From the day Baal punished me, and the hero Marduk became angry with me, 480 00:27:14.670 --> 00:27:14.670 My 481 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:17.120 god rejected me. He disappeared. 482 00:27:17.120 --> 00:27:20.590 My goddess left. She departed from my side. 483 00:27:20.780 --> 00:27:22.660 The sufferer says that the 484 00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:31.300 king's courtiers have plotted against him, causing him to lose the king's blessing and with it all of his worldly possessions. He had 485 00:27:31.300 --> 00:27:31.770 been 486 00:27:31.770 --> 00:27:36.360 reduced to an object of scorn and mockery, and 487 00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:36.840 his days 488 00:27:36.840 --> 00:27:40.200 were filled with terror and humiliation. 489 00:27:41.540 --> 00:27:42.460 The word 490 00:27:42.660 --> 00:27:44.090 around town was 491 00:27:44.090 --> 00:27:49.440 that, obviously, his apparent righteousness was all a ruse. That 492 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:49.980 he must 493 00:27:50.190 --> 00:27:53.000 have been living secretly in sin for the gods 494 00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:54.950 to have abandoned him like this. When 495 00:27:54.950 --> 00:27:56.620 I walked through the 496 00:27:56.620 --> 00:28:04.480 street, fingers were pointed at me. When I entered the palace, eyes would squint at me in disapproval. My 497 00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:05.190 own city 498 00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:09.580 glared at me as an enemy. My own country... 499 00:28:09.770 --> 00:28:09.770 was 500 00:28:09.790 --> 00:28:15.940 hostile to me as if it were foreign. My brother became a stranger. My friend became 501 00:28:15.940 --> 00:28:17.180 an enemy and a 502 00:28:17.870 --> 00:28:18.350 demon. My 503 00:28:18.590 --> 00:28:24.960 comrade denounced me furiously. My colleague dirtied his weapon for bloodshed. 504 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:25.050 My 505 00:28:25.230 --> 00:28:26.650 best friend slandered 506 00:28:26.790 --> 00:28:27.270 me. My 507 00:28:27.450 --> 00:28:29.680 own slave openly cursed me in the 508 00:28:30.370 --> 00:28:30.710 assembly. My 509 00:28:30.950 --> 00:28:34.120 slave girl defamed me before the crowd. 510 00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:37.240 When an acquaintance saw me, he hid. 511 00:28:37.180 --> 00:28:37.420 My 512 00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:40.860 own family rejected me as their flesh and blood. It 513 00:28:40.990 --> 00:28:42.840 goes on like that 514 00:28:42.940 --> 00:28:51.040 for a while. And finally, his torment is multiplied by an affliction of painful and debilitating diseases. On 515 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:52.480 the second of 516 00:28:52.480 --> 00:29:06.500 the four tablets, the sufferer mounts a feeble defense of his conduct, saying that his god had treated him as somebody who had lived unrighteously and failed to fulfill his religious duties, but that in fact... 517 00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:06.780 I was 518 00:29:06.800 --> 00:29:13.320 attentive to prayers and supplications. Prayer was my common sense. Sacrifice my rule. 519 00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:15.150 Finally, he's 520 00:29:15.210 --> 00:29:28.760 visited in dreams by envoys of the gods who praise him for never cursing his lord. And then on the gods' behalf, they remove his afflictions and restore his place of honor. And that's how the poem ends. 521 00:29:29.100 --> 00:29:33.150 An Akkadian poem says, 522 00:29:33.450 --> 00:29:37.140 known as the dialogue between a man and his God, 523 00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:37.350 is 524 00:29:37.490 --> 00:29:40.990 the earliest known theodicy, which is what all of these 525 00:29:41.190 --> 00:29:48.940 are. Theodicy is a Greek term coined by Leibniz to refer to religious attempts to reconcile God's justice with the 526 00:29:48.940 --> 00:30:00.680 problem of evil, basically. This Akkadian version is shorter and simpler, but it carries the same tune. A prosperous man is destroyed by painful illness, 527 00:30:00.870 --> 00:30:00.870 and 528 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:06.820 the collapse of his social position, he cries out for justice, and is finally restored by the renewed 529 00:30:06.820 --> 00:30:11.730 attention of his god, who praises his servants' loyalty despite 530 00:30:11.730 --> 00:30:13.290 his suffering. Now 531 00:30:13.320 --> 00:30:21.720 all of these ancient texts are relatively recent discoveries. The Sumerian version, for example, was translated in the mid-19th 532 00:30:21.830 --> 00:30:22.550 century. So 533 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:27.050 it's possible that some elements of the translations were influenced 534 00:30:27.080 --> 00:30:27.080 by 535 00:30:27.260 --> 00:30:27.260 the 536 00:30:27.270 --> 00:30:46.070 translator's Christian perspective regarding what a story like this is supposed to teach us. Other scholars have independently translated the poems in the years since, but one of the things that happens with texts like these is later translators often begin with the accepted original version as their starting 537 00:30:46.070 --> 00:30:46.530 point and 538 00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:47.160 avoid 539 00:30:47.190 --> 00:30:57.240 venturing out with two novel interpretations that might invite controversy or just be seen as a challenge or a dig by other translators 540 00:30:57.250 --> 00:30:57.950 and so 541 00:30:57.950 --> 00:31:09.310 as a result problematic translations can often survive the scrutiny of many eyes for a long time as may be true of a critical passage in the book of Job which we'll discuss later 542 00:31:09.980 --> 00:31:13.830 but even allowing for that possibility 543 00:31:13.810 --> 00:31:14.020 The 544 00:31:14.150 --> 00:31:19.130 similarities between all of these poems with each other and with the book of 545 00:31:19.130 --> 00:31:29.230 Job are to start to ignore, I think. And given the well-documented cultural and demographic interpenetration of these ancient Near Eastern societies, 546 00:31:29.230 --> 00:31:33.550 and the much later composition date of the biblical story of Job, 547 00:31:34.010 --> 00:31:34.430 which most 548 00:31:34.430 --> 00:31:39.410 scholars agree is a product of the Jews' time in Babylonian captivity, 549 00:31:39.410 --> 00:31:42.480 so you're talking 6th century B.C., 550 00:31:42.450 --> 00:31:42.690 The 551 00:31:43.170 --> 00:31:48.950 baseline assumption, I think, should be that the basic framework of the story 552 00:31:48.950 --> 00:31:52.720 was a common possession of all the peoples in the region. That 553 00:31:52.940 --> 00:31:54.180 kind of syncretism 554 00:31:54.180 --> 00:32:06.730 can be off-putting to more literal-minded Christians who often balk at any suggestion that biblical stories might have been influenced by older, non-biblical sources. 555 00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:08.350 There 556 00:32:08.350 --> 00:32:18.280 are, for example, several Sumerian and Babylonian myths, all of which almost certainly predate the composition of the biblical book of 557 00:32:18.430 --> 00:32:18.940 Genesis, 558 00:32:18.940 --> 00:32:27.580 that tell of a universal flood survived by one man and his family who had been warned to build a giant boat to ride the thing out. Tablets 559 00:32:27.600 --> 00:32:28.530 and seals 560 00:32:28.610 --> 00:32:36.330 from ancient Sumer, Babylon, Elam, and other places depict scenes that 561 00:32:36.340 --> 00:32:36.490 in 562 00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:42.640 which a woman is leading a male initiate to eat the fruit of a tree with a serpent coiled around 563 00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:43.330 it. Or some 564 00:32:43.330 --> 00:32:49.480 variation on that theme. You know, the fruit might be a drink, and the serpent might be a god wearing a serpent crown. 565 00:32:49.730 --> 00:32:49.980 But the 566 00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:53.120 similarities to Eve leading Adam to partake 567 00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:56.460 of the fruit that she'd eaten at the serpent's urging, 568 00:32:56.780 --> 00:33:00.830 very hard to deny. Christians... 569 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:01.210 And 570 00:33:01.540 --> 00:33:07.450 some Jews, although to be honest, Jews in my experience tend to be more flexible and open-minded regarding the 571 00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:13.780 literalness of their own texts than many Christians. But those 572 00:33:13.780 --> 00:33:15.920 of them who insist that 573 00:33:16.020 --> 00:33:19.130 the Old Testament stories are historically 574 00:33:20.230 --> 00:33:26.420 factual, they usually don't approve of these comparisons. They find ways to argue around them. 575 00:33:26.570 --> 00:33:31.830 But when it comes to the book of Job, at least, I don't really think that's necessary. 576 00:33:32.040 --> 00:33:32.100 Even 577 00:33:32.100 --> 00:33:35.200 if you do think of it that way, I don't think it's 578 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:36.070 necessary. 579 00:33:36.280 --> 00:33:41.520 One reason not to object to Job's story being a common possession of the ancient Near 580 00:33:41.910 --> 00:33:42.080 East is 581 00:33:42.120 --> 00:33:43.110 written right 582 00:33:43.110 --> 00:33:44.820 there in the first verse 583 00:33:44.820 --> 00:33:45.870 of the book. 584 00:33:45.870 --> 00:33:50.280 "There was a man in the land of Uz whose name 585 00:33:50.280 --> 00:33:52.170 was Job." 586 00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:52.970 See, Job 587 00:33:52.970 --> 00:33:54.590 is not a Hebrew name. 588 00:33:54.770 --> 00:33:54.770 And 589 00:33:54.810 --> 00:33:56.970 scholars best guess at the location of 590 00:33:56.970 --> 00:34:02.410 the land of Uz puts it in the northwest corner of Arabia, near the Gulf of Aqaba. In 591 00:34:02.510 --> 00:34:03.400 other words, 592 00:34:03.450 --> 00:34:07.900 not in the Hebrew heartland, because Job was not a Hebrew. 593 00:34:08.170 --> 00:34:10.220 This would be far from the only time 594 00:34:10.220 --> 00:34:13.850 in the Old Testament that God takes an interest in the fate 595 00:34:14.190 --> 00:34:14.300 of a 596 00:34:14.310 --> 00:34:15.070 Gentile. 597 00:34:17.200 --> 00:34:18.060 Abraham very 598 00:34:18.060 --> 00:34:27.620 early or actually he's still named Abram since the scene depicted in Genesis 14 takes place before the covenant gives him his better known name of Abraham 599 00:34:28.560 --> 00:34:32.920 Abram pays homage to Melchizedek king of Salem 600 00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.020 and the text says a priest of the most high 601 00:34:36.020 --> 00:34:37.530 and the verses 602 00:34:37.630 --> 00:34:45.750 that follow make clear that the most high is not some generic title for some other god but is Yahweh 603 00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:46.190 the 604 00:34:46.370 --> 00:34:51.080 future God of the Israelites. God also commanded 605 00:34:51.080 --> 00:34:53.340 Jonah to prophesy against Nineveh, 606 00:34:53.710 --> 00:34:54.320 capital city 607 00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:56.860 of the heathen Assyrian Empire, 608 00:34:56.860 --> 00:34:57.890 in order that 609 00:34:57.890 --> 00:34:59.320 they might repent 610 00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:01.600 and turn their hearts to God, which they do. 611 00:35:01.970 --> 00:35:03.290 King David's mother 612 00:35:03.560 --> 00:35:08.340 was a Moabite. So there are many such cases, which... 613 00:35:08.300 --> 00:35:08.500 to a 614 00:35:08.630 --> 00:35:15.920 Christian, prefigure God's later expansion of the covenant beyond the confines of Israel out to all the nations. 615 00:35:16.250 --> 00:35:17.460 Okay, so if 616 00:35:17.770 --> 00:35:23.960 Job is not an Israelite, and the rabbinical consensus is that he was not, 617 00:35:24.290 --> 00:35:25.060 that means he 618 00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:25.490 was not 619 00:35:25.810 --> 00:35:35.840 subject to the law handed down through Moses at Mount Sinai. In fact, neither the law nor the history of the Israelites is mentioned or even 620 00:35:36.140 --> 00:35:37.660 alluded to in the book of 621 00:35:37.660 --> 00:35:38.000 Job. 622 00:35:37.980 --> 00:35:38.160 And 623 00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:42.120 there's no indication that Job is a convert to the Hebrew religion, or 624 00:35:42.340 --> 00:35:42.770 that he's 625 00:35:42.770 --> 00:35:45.030 ever heard of the Torah, or of 626 00:35:45.030 --> 00:35:48.360 anyone named Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, or Moses. 627 00:35:48.690 --> 00:35:50.680 And this, again, is not 628 00:35:50.680 --> 00:35:51.460 without 629 00:35:51.460 --> 00:35:54.230 precedent in the Bible. The 630 00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:54.880 fact that 631 00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:00.020 Melchizedek was called a priest of the Most High, even though neither 632 00:36:00.040 --> 00:36:02.740 the covenant, nor the law, nor the 633 00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:03.840 priesthood, 634 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:04.220 had 635 00:36:04.350 --> 00:36:07.460 yet been created at that time, 636 00:36:07.570 --> 00:36:09.540 it's evidence that 637 00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:16.060 those are apparently not prerequisites for being in God's service, for Gentiles at least. 638 00:36:16.060 --> 00:36:18.540 The Ninevites did not demonstrate the 639 00:36:18.570 --> 00:36:24.330 sincerity of their repentance by circumcising themselves or adopting the prohibitions 640 00:36:24.510 --> 00:36:26.300 and sacrifices demanded by 641 00:36:26.300 --> 00:36:26.820 the law, 642 00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:27.090 And it 643 00:36:27.270 --> 00:36:28.590 would have made no sense for them 644 00:36:28.590 --> 00:36:29.020 to do that 645 00:36:29.490 --> 00:36:35.180 Because those were things required only of the Israelites As a sign of the special task for which they had been designated 646 00:36:35.730 --> 00:36:37.030 And so if Job was 647 00:36:37.030 --> 00:36:38.920 not under the law 648 00:36:39.330 --> 00:36:40.840 The interesting 649 00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:43.700 question is, well then what was his religion? 650 00:36:44.150 --> 00:36:46.480 The Bible scholar 651 00:36:46.990 --> 00:36:50.550 Jack Miles calls it the covenant of Eden Job 652 00:36:50.690 --> 00:36:51.290 had the 653 00:36:51.310 --> 00:36:54.180 same religion, so to speak 654 00:36:54.630 --> 00:36:54.660 And he had the same religion 655 00:36:54.620 --> 00:36:54.830 As 656 00:36:54.940 --> 00:36:58.740 the pre-Abrahamic patriarchs, Adam and 657 00:36:58.740 --> 00:36:59.440 Noah, 658 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.670 as well as Melchizedek. That 659 00:37:02.710 --> 00:37:10.680 is, he believed in one God who created the universe, that God was good, and that one fulfilled one's duties to him by rendering 660 00:37:10.740 --> 00:37:13.040 sacrifice and living righteously. 661 00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:15.750 Although it seems very likely 662 00:37:15.810 --> 00:37:22.100 that the book of Job was a new twist on an old story told by their neighbors for a long time, 663 00:37:22.810 --> 00:37:25.940 before the Jews ever wrote down their version, 664 00:37:26.270 --> 00:37:26.270 its 665 00:37:26.310 --> 00:37:30.920 uniqueness is not diminished for having been shared. None of the older 666 00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:32.970 versions even approached the book of 667 00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:33.530 Job in 668 00:37:33.610 --> 00:37:40.900 the beauty of its verses, or the depth of its theological ruminations, or the grandeur and ambition 669 00:37:41.430 --> 00:37:43.260 of its vision. 670 00:37:43.510 --> 00:37:50.060 The book is divided broadly into three parts. The first part we described above. 671 00:37:50.270 --> 00:37:55.870 It begins with God's wager with the devil, and ends with Job seated in silent suffering 672 00:37:55.870 --> 00:37:56.880 with his three friends. 673 00:37:57.210 --> 00:37:58.530 The second part is by 674 00:37:58.540 --> 00:38:06.110