Brett Cooper — The Internet Hates James Charles Again... But This Time I Agree With Him

Brett Cooper in "The Internet Hates James Charles Again... But This Time I Agree With Him". Full transcript below, with the movement's reading and the gaps we could not close.

Source recording published by the original channel. We The Citizens transcribed and indexed it; we did not make it. Watch the original.

Transcript

- Hey sisters, if you are looking for proof that sometimes getting cancelled on the internet does nothing to you or your brand, then look no further than James Charles because I think that this man has made more apology videos than anybody on the internet and it just keeps on going. - Hi all James here. - And this time guys, unfortunately I think I might agree with him. Just bear with me. Now, before we dive into this story, I just wanna remind you guys that on May 19th, that is next week, I'll be doing another show at Zany.

So if you are in Nashville in the Greater Nashville Middle Tennessee area, come on out. We still have tickets available. The link will be in the bio. I tell stories, basically do a live version of the show. We make fun of my favourite things on the internet per usual. So it was just a good time. May 19th at Zanies, go check it out. All right, I am so excited about this episode. James Charles is such a fricking trip.

I don't even have words to like describe the type of person he is, where he came from, like he just kind of had to be there. But TLDR, he is an OG influencer, like one of the first ever makeup beauty influencers. He was friends with like the Dolan twins and Emma Chamberlain, if those names ring any bells for you, Jeffrey Star, that whole world. And he just constantly seems to be in hot water and this week is no different.

So in order to talk about this story, you do need a tiny bit of context here. And so two weeks ago, this is really all you need to know, but two weeks ago Spirit Airlines officially closed its doors. Now there's a whole political debate about whether we need to blame Elizabeth Warren or Trump, all that stuff. Delta is now getting all the spirit airline passengers. So good luck Delta. Anyway, they closed its doors. Most importantly leaving 17,000 people out of work and one of these employees, or I guess alleged employees, we have no idea who this person is.

DMed this mega influencer, James Charles, a link to her GoFundMe. I'll put the message up on the screen so you can see this. She's saying They left me without a job, anything will help. Now James was in his DMS scrolling one night, maybe looking for teenage boys, I don't know, sorry. And he read this DM and he decided to make a TikTok about it and TLDR, he let his intrusive thoughts win. So let's just watch his response.

This is what set the internet into a tizzy. - I just got a DM on here from a girl that said, good morning James. I know you'll probably never see this, but if you could just take one minute to read, it would really mean a lot to me. I'm really struggling right now because Spirit Airlines just filed for bankruptcy and I have lost my job. Here's a GoFundMe link. I need donations help. I'm sure they do, sweetheart. I'm sure they do.

You know what else would help you getting another job? Yeah, try that. Because in the time that it took you to copy and paste the same fuck ass message to myself who you don't follow, by the way, and probably a hundred other influencers and celebrities, you could have applied for a hundred other jobs but you didn't. 'cause you're a lazy piece of shit and you are entitled and you think that influences and celebrities should fund your life for you.

Why? Why would I ever help you? You're not a fan. You don't even follow me. You've never supported me. This is your first time dyeing and you think that I'm gonna f send you money because you lost your job. Oh my God, welcome to the real world sweetheart. People lose their jobs every fucking day and you are white pretty and able-bodied. You are in a much better position than a lot of other people out here who are trying clearly much harder to make a better life for themselves.

Why would I fucking help you? - Okay, so that is just one minute of a video. He actually goes on for two minutes and 30 seconds. Now we are going to talk about the content of that video, the point that he's making, the things that unfortunately I do agree with. But first you need to see the reaction because people were outraged to put it mildly. Now the internet, immediately they started melting down. I'm just feeling really sad.

He saw the comments and so he raced back over to TikTok and he deleted the video. Now as I saw all of this transpire and I was reading the comments from people being like, you are entitled. You have no reason to talk about her being white and able-bodied because you aren't being woke enough. You aren't doing this. This is so grotesque. I can't believe this is coming for you. I mean, everybody was losing their effing minds.

And I was sitting here reading all this and I was like, I don't know why anybody wouldn't expect this from James Charles again, he has a new controversy every six months because he can't close his mouth. He probably has a notes app full of apology draughts that he just has ready to go. Anytime he gets in hot water, he has been cancelled and then cancelled. Or I guess just like gotten back into the internet to good graces like a hundred times At this point, he was literally exposed for sliding into the dms of underaged boys.

Like, come on, people. I can't believe you would do. This is not some saint we are dealing with. Like please stop clutching your pearls and save the outrage. Anyway, so that was my initial response and like I said, he took down the video, took time to think, he read the comments and then he came back and he posted this - Leaving the video that I posted yesterday talking about people who send me GoFundMe links that have never followed supported D me before, just begging for money.

And most people were like enjoying the video saying it was a valid point. But it definitely started causing some discourse in the comments and a lot of people were just saying it was out of touch and insensitive and they're right. It was definitely a harsh choice of words, maybe not my best video and I deleted it. But of course the internet is forever and now a lot of content creators are using like the five second clip in the very beginning where I'm like, you're a lazy piece of shit.

Get a new job to upload their cute little think pieces. Be like influencers are all so out of touch. This is so disgusting. You don't know hard it is in the job market these days. Oh my god, gimme, I'm outta touch first and foremost, okay? I am never gonna be one of those influencers that gets online and pretends to be poor. So I can come across as relatable to my audience. - I mean like we're, again, we're gonna get into this, but James Charles is worst crime in this sense.

Not the worst thing he's ever done obviously, but his worst crime is just being too honest, is letting his intrusive thoughts win. He literally says, yeah, I am out of touch. Sorry, like at least he's not trying to fake authenticity and relatability, so I'll give him props for that. However, apparently a lot of the internet does not see it the same way that I do, and that video just increased the backlash. 'cause they looked at that and they were like, that's not actually an apology.

And so James Charles tried again, he deleted that video and then he posted yet another one. Here we go, watch this. - This video was fucking stupid. It was rude, it was obnoxious, it was privileged and most importantly it was completely fucking unnecessary. When I saw that dm, I absolutely had the choice to ignore it and say absolutely nothing at all and move on with my day. But instead, I couldn't even tell you why her message just triggered me and I decided instead to make a video about it.

And I bashed her and it was obnoxious and I shamed her for asking for help in a situation where she was clearly really struggling and this could have been her absolute last resort. I have no idea what was going on in her life and I should have never assumed that she was just copying and pasting this DM as an easy way out. I don't know, I just don't know anybody that saw that video and was disappointed or upset with what I said.

I am super sorry, especially to the woman from Spirit Airlines. I did try to look for her message earlier before making this video and I couldn't find it. - Okay, just all of it is so, so ridiculous. I'm so sorry to the woman from Spirit Airlines like it. It's just a comedy. We have to be able to laugh at this stuff. I genuinely, I can't comprehend being somebody that is watching all of this transpire and has such a parasocial relationship, has so little going on in their life that they're sitting on TikTok being like, James, I'm so disappointed.

Like now I sound like James Charles, but I'm like, people like, please move on and get alive. Anyway, that apology also did not do the trick. It just made people even more angry. It was like, that's not genuine enough. You didn't care enough. And so guess what guys? He deleted that one as well. So now as of Wednesday when I'm filming this, all of the videos have been deleted, which is just very James Charles. I think he was just desperately trying to appease his audience, appease the mob.

He ended up caving, he donated to the GoFundMe, after all probably like fine in his screechy James Charles voice. But moving on guys, this is where it gets even more ridiculous. And I get more excited about this story because it is so absurd, which is what is so insane about the apology tour that he did all of the outrage online, is the fact that less than a year ago in November of last year, James posted a video with the exact same sentiment on his spam account.

Watch this, - Stop asking me for money. Oh my. I dunno if any other influencer has to do all this, but holy fuck, I probably get a hundred messages a day from people and every single one is the same. Hi you. I know that you're never gonna see this, but I love you. I enjoy your content so much. Your videos really make me smile even on my worst days, which by the way, speaking of today is my worst day because my mom died and then I got diagnosed with a really, really rare disease and I was on the way to the hospital for an appointment for that disease and somebody hit my car and then my car exploded and my leg flew up.

So I hopped home on my one leg and then when I opened my front door, water came rushing out and my whole house was flooded and now I'm homeless. So can you please send me a hundred thousand dollars because I'm your really big fan. And then you look at the top of the DM and they're not even fucking following you. Bitch, get the fuck outta here with that generic ass copied and pasted ass chat GP generated ass fucking America's got talent.

Golden buzzer, sob story bullshit. No, you can't have a hundred thousand dollars. You dumb. Oh my God, no. And even worse, out of the a hundred messages that I get of that per day, I would say instead of the hey, you at the top six or seven of them are, Hey Mr. Beast. Hey Mr. Wrong influencer, sweetie. This is why you're fucking a hundred thousand dollars in debt. 'cause you're on moron who couldn't even spend 30 fucking seconds proofreading to make sure that you weren't sending the same name as the last message that you sent.

Or God forbid that you customise it a little bit, sprinkle a little bit of personality into there. Hey James, your makeup really makes me smile. I love your five minute crafts videos, your collab with X, Y like, oh, thank God, no effort at all. No one's helping you, babe. - Okay guys, so this video also goes on for another minute and a half, but the reason why I am showing you this is because this is not new. James has been talking about this.

This apparently has been a stress in his life for a while. So it's absurd that the internet now is like, oh my goodness. It's like we talked about yesterday with euphoria saying retarded. It's like, oh, now you've crossed the line when there's been sex and drugs and incest and rape, but oh my God, they said retarded. Like, oh, now I sound like James Charles. Like I, I feel him in this video. I'm like, oh my God, I feel the stress.

I get it. Like I feel like he is my alter ego as I am doing the show. Anyway, so I wanted to show you guys that for two reasons. Number one, because he's been talking about it for a while, so people should not be, you know, freaking out. And number two, because at the time, six months ago, not only was he talking about it, but everyone in the comments thought it was hilarious. They were all joking around in the comments with him, like somebody posted this meme and was like, bad time to ask for $40.

Another person said, this is actually funny. Somebody else said, all I heard was to make sure I'm following you before I ask for a hundred K. That's literally the craziest part. Going back to the original story, this woman from Spirit Airlines not even following him like I guarantee she was just sending out random damns, which is fine, like shoot, you're shot I guess. But it's his of to be like, I don't know you. You're not even a fan.

I have no connection with you whatsoever. This is ridiculous. And apparently it's been happening a long time. And even more so people are confusing him with Mr. Beast, like not even knowing who he is. So hello, my point actually stands even more. Nobody should be shocked about the video that he posted 48 hours ago. Literally nobody because six months ago y'all were all in the comments. That video has over 2 million likes at this point.

Everybody was he, he he along with James Charles, until the TikTok Morality police came out and told you that it was inappropriate, that it was entitled that it was out of touch and that you all needed to get mad when six months ago everybody was in on the joke. Now to be fair, it's not the entire internet that is losing their minds. There were some brave soldiers on TikTok who did say they agreed with him. Like, this girl, just watch this.

- I was watching the video, I was little thinking real, I'm not gonna lie because what the fuck are you fucking doing? If a random was asking me for money, I'd do the same shit. Go get a job. Especially from someone who you don't even support, like go get a fucking job. I don't know. And I know that isn't out of touch opinion, but is it really that out of touch? Is it? - And now in her comment section, there were a lot of people that didn't necessarily disagree with him, but they just didn't like the way that he presented it.

They were like, maybe you could have done it a little differently. Like somebody said that James went about it so awfully. But at the end of the day, I agree with him a hundred percent. And then somebody on Reddit in a whole thread that was talking about this said, I personally don't think the GoFundMe is the solution to everything. And contacting celebrities, begging for money is weird as fuck. But boy would I just ignore it if that was me making videos about it and mocking people as tone deaf af.

Just get another job from a person who will never experience that struggle, very clear sign that he has completely lost touch with reality and has absolutely no clue how the real world works and how normal people problems look like. And then somebody responded to her on Reddit and said, right, I'm sitting here thinking I don't really disagree with him, but it could have been handled way differently. And guys, two things can be true at once.

Nuance is important. Nuance obviously is a lost art online. We talk about that all the time. But in line with those commentaries, what we just read, the video we just watched, like that is also where I have landed personally. Like here's the thing, although I do not think that James Charles is a good person, nor anyone that anybody should be looking up to, I hate to say that he did highlight a very weird thing in our culture, which is people being so open about just like asking for money and handouts from people that they do not know.

Like he said, this person did not even follow him, had never dmd him before, was not a fan, had no personalised part of the message, was not like a, I'm such a fan, you inspired me in this way. This is my story. Just, hi, here's a link. Can I have money? Like actually sending the GoFundMe link before even saying hello? Now on that note, if you look at the description below, there is a link where you can support local American farmers and ranchers through my friends over at Good Ranchers.

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So to see standout, just go to angel.com/brett to join the Angel Guild and stream standout today. Again, angel.com/brett. Alright, now back to James Charles and his social faux pa. Yes, I agree. James could have very easily just ignored the dm, let it wash over him, move on with his day. Probably would've been for the best. He could've avoided the controversy that he is in. But also, like I keep saying it is James Charles that we are dealing with here.

Like who is surprised? He is not really politically correct, even though he desperately wants to be, he desperately wants to be woke. He is a loudmouth and he posted something that in terms of normal social etiquette is not very appropriate. But also he kind of does that every single day. What makes this okay, even crazier? I know I keep going on these side rides, but what makes it so crazy is that literally last week James went viral for a very similar video.

He posted a video where he was saying, Hey, we need to hire a social media assistant for me. So if you want to apply, here are these specific instructions. And he laid it out. He was like, I want a portfolio. I want you to submit a video, a type of video that you would suggest me making on this channel in lieu of an application. He made those instructions very clear, they were in the caption and in the video, and then he posted it, went on his way.

Then he came back 24 hours later and he was screaming at his audience as he normally does. And he was like, none of you people read the instructions. And he was like, I got hundreds and hundreds of applications and nobody sent a portfolio, nobody sent a video. And I had people in my comments being like, James, pick me. I wanna do it. And then he would reply and be like, yes, please apply. And they would respond to him and go, how do I do that?

And so rightfully, he got on his page and he was like, did nobody watch the video? Does nobody care? And he was like, is this why people can't get jobs and are lazy and all of these things? He was like, you're not even reading the instructions more so you're applying for a job, not submitting the necessary things and then being upset that I'm not giving you an interview. I know that. That's a whole other tangent. This is not new for James.

- Mm, block me then fatty. - He screeches all day long on the internet, honestly more than I do about very relatable things, which I hate to say it 'cause I don't think he's a good person. But he says the thing that I think a lot of people in their heart of hearts in the deepest parts of their mind, the recesses of their minds that they are thinking. And so unfortunately, even though, yeah, this probably wasn't the best thing to post, he made a good point.

Somebody sending that DM when you are not a fan is strange. And he's also not the first person who has gotten reamed online for not just handing out money like this is now a very infamous meme. You might remember back in 2016, a fan who tweeted at the star of Jane the Virgin whose name is Gina Rodriguez. And this fan was asking for help. So she said, here is Gina, please help a struggling Latina sister who can't afford to pay her tuition.

Just literally just tweeted that at her. And Gina replied and said, have you looked into the Hispanic Scholarship Fund? There are a few places to look for help Mama let's research. And now over a decade later, people still mock this and they're like, mama, let's research. And it's used as kind of a blow off entitled, I'm Better than You. I don't need to help you. She got destroyed online for that response. She was actually trying to help the girl.

She works with this organisation. She was like, Hey, look into this. This is an organisation that I work with. You should look into that. They will help you pay for your tuition. I'm like, for a minute there people were not sure if her career would recover because the backlash was so intense, honestly between that and her accidentally uploading a song with the N word in it on her story, like in peak BLM era. That was kind of enough to stall her forever.

So I guess maybe it did get destroyed. But anyway, moving on from that. The point is this has become a hot button issue in our culture. And this whole thing with James has now been blown so outta proportion that now other influencers are jumping in and making videos about how they respond to dms. Like for example, look at this video that Abby Herbert just uploaded. - A follower just sent me this DM and it says, hi, I'm in desperate need of a Zoey double side-by-side stroller.

Would you be able to gift me one with a heart emoji? And do you wanna know what I did? Very simple and very easy. I responded back and I said, hi, what's your best shipping address? Gimme your full name and email. It's that simple. I got so lucky. My husband and I lost our jobs back in 2020 and I was so lucky. And I wake up every single day, blessed and grateful for the life that I have because of you guys, because of TikTok, because of Instagram, because of the internet, I'm able to do all of this and take care of my family because of you guys.

So why would I not be giving back - Right now? The thing is, if you guys are watching on YouTube, you can see that I'm smiling. Like that video is very wholesome. It is sweet. I love Abby. I am a follower of hers. I think her family is really cute. She seems like a great mom. It is very sweet and wonderful that she did this for this mom. I know so many people that would do the same thing, but at the same time, just like taking that emotional side out of it, somebody just DMing her out of the blue, asking for a very specific expensive stroller is also just a bit odd.

Like can we take a step back to acknowledge that? Now, probably my favourite side story from this entire controversy is in keeping with this whole like influencers now jumping in trying to like fix the situation that James Charles created. But one of the celebrities who jumped in is none other than Gypsy Rose Blanchard. You can see the headline right here. Gypsy Rose donates to late off Spirit Airlines employee amid James Charles TikTok backlash.

And the message that she left on the GoFundMe killed me. Like, remember guys, we were about entitlement, all of that stuff. So the comment that you left on the GoFundMe was, hi, my name is Gypsy Rose Blanchard, I'm an influencer on TikTok. I have 9.3 million followers. I'm truly sorry for what happened and I am sending many positive vibes for you. Thank you. Gypsy Rose, our 9.3 million follower saviour. Anyway, back to the point.

This is where I hope that this episode really takes a positive turn for everybody because I know I've, I've done the impossible. I have agreed with James Charles, I have asked you to remove emotion to look at a situation. So now we can kind of take a turn here because I want you to know, I don't think that influencers and celebrities giving out money is bad at all. It's actually the contrary. I think it is wonderful.

I think it is important that you give back and invest in the people who built your career for you and gave you a platform. I think it's incredibly important just as a normal person, if you don't have this kind of job to be giving back to your community, if you have the resources, all of that is amazing. But I personally love it when individuals do that out of their own volition. And Taylor Swift, I know, and I'm talking about Taylor Swift, but Taylor Swift is an amazing example of this.

And people love to, Hey, Taylor Swift because she's a billionaire, she's flying around on her private jet, all the things. And honestly, it would probably help her image a lot if she was more public about how much money she gives away. But that's also what makes it so amazing. Like listen to these stories. We're just gonna rattle through some of these in case you don't know them. So for example, in 2019, a fan named Isha posted on Tumblr, which if you know that's Taylor's favourite social media platform.

And she was posting about how she was struggling to pay rent and tuition and she explained that her parents working minimum wage jobs and her mother had a chronic kidney disease. She was just posting this to her friends. And within two hours, Taylor Swift, who it's long been established, she follows many of her big super fans on all these social media platforms. She's like lurking on social media. Within two hours she deposited over $4,800 into this fan's PayPal account, which you can see.

She posted about it here was like, this is so amazing. And then in an interview this fan said, when I posted I was just venting. It's hard to pay off tuition. It's really expensive. One of my friends online was like, you should drop your PayPal so we can help you out. And I was like, that's not a bad idea, I should totally do that. And then I did. And the next thing I know, I literally have no problems anymore because of Taylor just quietly and randomly sending her that money and she didn't even ask for it in the first place.

Now, on top of that, in 2020, she also donated just over $30,000 to one of her fans in the uk. She had received a conditional offer to study mathematics at some big university, but she could not afford it. So Taylor then saw this story, she left money, she left a comment on this girl's GoFundMe saying, Hey Victoria, I came across your story online. I'm so inspired by your drive and dedication to turning your dreams into a reality.

I wanna gift you the rest of your goal amount. Good luck with everything you do. Love Taylor. Again, she was not asked to do this. The girl is not DMing her saying, Hey, please look at your GoFundMe. Taylor just stumbled across the story that we can keep going here. Like she quietly donated another $30,000 for a fan whose mom was in a coma, 13,000 to two different moms who needed to cover rent $10,000 to a family whose 2-year-old daughter was fighting cancer.

And then Ruby Rose, ugh, I know we just talked about her. She's awful. But she used to be afraid of Taylor Swift. She actually posted recently about this and she said LOL, she, Taylor used to scroll GoFundMe like a social media app, clicking reach their donation, meaning like fund the entire thing. If somebody had a 400 K fundraiser, they had only gotten 2000 to fund the entire thing, she was donating $300,000, whatever it was, she used to click reach their donation, like the like button.

I mean it's crazy. Like on the Aris tour, which is like the biggest tour ever done by musicians, she donated money to food banks at every stop. She gave her team $197 million in bonuses on top of their salaries. Like every step of the way. She and her team decided to do this on their own volition. She was not asked, she was not tagged. She went out of her way to find these stories, scrolling on GoFundMe to support these fans.

And I do think it's kind of gross to tout these things around, but Taylor So's way of doing this has literally inspired the way that I personally try to get back. Like I love stumbling upon a great GoFundMe on X. I love reading the stories. I'm such an empath. It'll be me at like 2:00 AM crying and being like, yes, I'm going to donate. I love supporting the organisations in our local community that I know are making an impact.

But like if you DM me, if you are not following me, you DM me with not so much as a hello that I'm sorry, my James Charles might come out because it's just a bit ridiculous. Anyway, that's just an decide. Maybe I should not give Taylor Swift to all of the credit because she's not the only one who has done this sort of thing. Back in 2017, Nicki Minaj obviously, who everybody on the right is loving right now. She was interacting with her fans, her barbs on Twitter.

Somebody made a joke about needing help with their tuition and then she was like, bet, okay, I'll help you. Let's start a contest. If you get straight A's, I will help you with your tuition. You can see here, she said, show me straight A's and that I can verify with your school and I'll pay it. Who wants to join that contest? Dead serious, should I set it up? And she literally gave out thousands and thousands of dollars.

The thread is like millions of comments long. Everybody was posting their transcripts. She was going through and being like, DM me your bank info. I'm sending this. By the end of the night she was like, oh my gosh, okay, I need to stop. I need to make sure I still have money left and then I'll do it next month as well. And then a year later she actually went on Ellen, she collaborated with Walmart. She's surprised even more of her fans that Ellen flew out.

She literally paid off all of their student loans. Another example, Alex Earl created a University of Miami. That's where she attended school. She created a scholarship there. Paige Lauren, who's the founder of Dairy Boy, her tennis pro fiance, they just started a kid. Sports foundation. Like there are so many incredible stories here. Some of them are louder and more publicised like with the creation of a scholarship or a foundation.

And some are just quiet gifts to fans. And I'm sure there are so many other ones like this that are behind the scenes and none of these people have to do that. They don't have to, they're not required to. But with the tens of millions, hundreds of millions, billions of dollars, if you're of Taylor Swift, it's wonderful that they choose to do that. And I wonder if, because of this, maybe we should just blame Taylor Swift.

Maybe it's a Taylor Swift effect. But I wonder if people have just gotten used to that. You know, they see the generosity, the big grand gestures on GoFundMe and other things. They see extreme wealth on display, which honestly is harder to ignore thanks to social media. It's just in people's faces all the time. And in an economy such as this, it makes sense that they're gonna be like, well, I want some of that. Plus I would say that our culture just in general, unfortunately not to be harsh, but it has become, you know, more victim focused.

It has become grabby, I would say. And so I guess now people are just comfortable going out of their way to DM random people that they don't even follow. Saying, Hey, gimme money. Not even saying hi, just sending the GoFundMe link. Please buy me something. Please send me money. And I hate to equate it to this. I feel bad doing so, but it almost feels like the homeless man on the side of the road who goes like, I wanted a burger, not chicken tenders.

When you try to hand him a meal because you see that he might be hungry, like, geez, okay. Like I guess I won't try to, it's just it's, it gives me that same sort of feeling. And again, the fact that I'm even making this video is crazy to me because I am no James Charles defender. The episodes that I have done on him in the past are scathing. And yes, I agree. It was loud mouthed. It was probably in very poor taste.

It would've been for the best if he had just allowed that to be his subconscious rather than putting it online. And so we can at least thank him for bringing up this conversation, an interesting conversation in that. And then just move on because again, I can't believe that people are seriously shocked. The James Charles is not the quiet generosity type. Like, I mean, come on, people get a grip. Maybe people were swayed by his recent UN era that he's had for the last year and a half, but he is still James Charles, he's still the centre of the by sister controversy.

He's still the James Charles that was DMing underage straight boys. He is still the James Charles that makes videos every day screaming at people screaming at his own fans. So come on, save your shock and your outrage for something that is actually unexpected. And please stop DMing people asking for money.

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What we could not verify

  • This transcript has no timecodes, so no line below can be linked to a moment in the video.
  • No speaker separation ran on this recording, so the lines below are not attributed to a speaker.