Brett Cooper — Shawn Ryan on Masculinity, Independence, and Family | Episode 6

being a man it takes being vulnerable it takes raising kids and it takes you know monogamous relationships to to better Society look at these people that run around their whole life that's not a good road to go down I mean if you're not trying to better Society then what are you doing here guys I am so excited to bring you the first long form conversation of the red Cooper show genuinely I have been looking forward to this since all of this started I've been promising you guys this for the last month and I've had a bunch of comments and DMS saying when are the interviews going to start well I was painting trim in this new studio we were hanging shiplap and getting all the wallpaper done we were building Furniture this morning and now we have our first guest here with me today the incomparable Shawn Ryan host of the Shawn Ryan Show and if you guys don't know Shawn is a former Navy SEAL and CIA operative turn podcaster who interviews some of the world's most interesting people his show is consistently ranked in the top three podcast CS in the world as it should be he has also become a wonderful friend and mentor to me especially in this transition into Independence and so I'm just so honored that he agreed to be my first guest Sean thank you so much for being here thanks for having me so I'm guest number one you're guest number one what an honor I know I'm very excited no I'm honored that you came I wanted actually to start off by asking you who was your first guest do you remember Mike Glover that's a great first guest Mike do you know Mike I do yeah Mike Glover L we worked together at the agency he was a Green Beret and then started fieldcraft survival but I love fieldcraft it's great I think that guildcraft has inspired all of my husband's prepping yeah that's where he goes for all of his information what took you from doing your Tactical training and your gun videos into interviews I just got kind of tired of doing gun training I mean you know I had a 14-year career in the SEAL Teams and at CIA and then I and then was training people and it really took off like really fast and uh I trained Kiana Reeves for John Wick 3 that created like a lot of controversy that I'd rather not go into but um but it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth with the whole tactical genre and so I didn't really know what I was going to do but podcasting was obviously getting pretty big and I was going to do that and I was doing reviews and I tried a reality to like a real realityy show like a survival reality show did you go on one no no no I I was I was having patrons for my patreon come into town and I would run them through a scenario like I think the first one was hey you got like a hundred bucks and the end of the world's happening and you can go to Bass Pro and buy whatever you want but it's $100 and then I would grade them on like what they bought we got some acreage south of where I live like a lot of acreage and so I ran them through what did I do it was um oh build a shelter and things to think about where you're going to build it how you're going to build it like longevity how closed to water all this stuff and so I sent him out into the woods and gave them a time limit and we filmed like the process I think it's still on YouTube this is probably the coolest thing I've ever heard yeah but I was like if I keep doing this I'm probably going to get sued somebody's going to fall off a cliff or drowned or who knows and I was doing podcasting at the same time and I just like really liked doing it I thought it'd be horrible at it cuz I'm not much of a talker but I got tired of I mean you know my background and I wanted guys like I just got sick of the same Talking Heads talking about Afghanistan Iraq Syria Yemen what war is like what it was like on certain raids about Benghazi and it was like nobody's like talking to the people that were there so I thought it was important I to document that history so I started bringing on guys like Mike and uh people that nobody had ever heard of and cuz I couldn't you know I didn't I couldn't get anybody any big names I didn't want big names either and uh but I just wanted people that had been there and done that and were on the ground to document history and everybody knows about the veteran suicide epidemic so it was guys that had started businesses that found success or that were they were trying to find success cuz I'd already had maybe 250 500,000 on my YouTube Just from gun videos and tactics and [ __ ] like that so anyways we we'd talk about you know the the downward spiral after service and kind of trying to find purpose again and a lot of guys were doing this through entrepreneurship and so they would come on we document their their wartime experience document their downward spiral talk about they got out of it and then I would kick it out the door and like these guys' businesses would just like shoot through the roof and it was awesome and so it just stuck just stuck and then I and then I wanted to broaden out to be able to talk about other things than just war and suicide attempts and stuff you know it's heavy heavy heavy content and um infidelity and addiction and all that kind of stuff that kind of goes with the with the typical special operator lifestyle and so I started going into cartels and then that's much lighter yeah well at least it was broadening a little bit you know I think I did like nine episodes there was pretty much all spec ops guys one cartel guy and then I did this psychedelic journey and I came back and I just was like I'm going to do whatever whatever I want to do I'm doing I don't care about what the audience wants I don't care I'm just doing what I want to do and then it really exploded I was going to ask if you had noticed something that worked and leaned in or whether it was completely driven by you and your interest but I guess that answered it there yeah I was interested in it but then like I mean there's just nobody that could tap into into the lives of combat veterans especially the Special Operations crowd like I have been able to I credit a lot of that to my therapist but it like because I was toed my own horn here but because I got so good at it like the audience just fed off that and they wanted more and more and more and more I mean we're getting guys with huge kill counts lots of combat like the toughest people in the world they come on and they like break down and cry and to like see a a man like that be vulnerable like it just captivates millions of people and so I got worried that I was like man like I'm never going to be able to do something else I'm never going to be able to have a female in the chair across from me or I'm never going to be able to talk to a doctor or a politician or whoever whatever I'm interested in or JoJo siwa but but um if she's watching Sean wants her on the show but um but yeah so then I did that experience and I just I was like [ __ ] it man I'm doing whatever I want I'm going to do whatever I want to do and if the audience is with me then they're with me and if they're not I don't care like I'm doing this cuz I want to have fun I don't want to be a slave to anything and you've stayed independent the whole time basically you've had people come and go but you've which is very difficult to do but I don't think many have well congratulations you're independent now I know I'm excited so welcome to the club it's man I'm I'm happy for you thank you and you've been so wonderful and for those who don't know Sean's here in Nashville and has been a great source of support so I appreciate it and that's why I'm so happy that you're the first guest you brought something up about your therapist you were talking about men coming on the show and being able to be vulnerable I think that there is a prevailing attitude especially on X in this like manosphere world where we kind of have this new caricature of men and obviously I think that it is a response to the softening of men in our society obviously and what people are experiencing but it feels like we been pushed in the opposite direction where men are now these caricatures of you can't cry you can't love a woman you can't get married you you know being a father's gay obviously you know your husband your father you have these men who are incredibly incredibly successful incredibly Brave probably the most masculine men in our society and they're coming on and crying what I guess can you talk about masculinity in your mind and what an accurate representation of masculinity is based on your experience man man that's a broad question it's a big one um I made it broader than it probably should have been look I think being a man I mean if you're not trying to better Society then what the [ __ ] are you doing it takes being vulnerable it takes raising kids and it takes you monogamous relationships to to better Society I mean I think and and you know like anybody that thinks that's that's like not what it's about look at these people that run around their whole life and they jump from woman to woman and they don't have any kids and then they're 65 years old nobody wants them anymore nobody gives a [ __ ] about them they've contributed nothing to society and look at how [ __ ] miserable those people are they left nothing positive in society that they've made they've left no marks they're just lost lonely Souls trying to suck everybody they can into what they've created because they're so [ __ ] lonely they can't even stand it that's not a good road to go down I mean I think every man's got to get you know a certain amount of Mischief out of their system to become like the man that they're supposed to be but if you haven't left a mark on society you know whether it's whether it's your kids or your wife or your or whoever your nieces and nephews what have you done here I think that goes for men and women especially maybe it's more of a generational thing too where I think a lot of my generation is floating through and trying to get by and we self- diagnose very aggressively that's the thing that jenz does it's like well we're all depressed we're all anxious we can't change anything the world is against us and that mindset I think has really held us back because now my generation's like well then why would we even try like we can't change anything and it's so yeah crippling I mean in in when when I talk about these guys coming on and getting vulnerable I mean I I can had to a certain extent I understand I mean these guys aren't [ __ ] crying over spilled milk no not all for example the last the last guy that I had on that broke down was a a really good friend of mine Chris fetus and Chris was on a hostage rescue mission for SEAL Team Six and he had to kill two kids and he was a sniper and after that he just kept having these reoccurring nightmares where he would relive that and the kids didn't die like right off the bat in his dream they would look up and it would be his son's face on the kid that he just shot and and you know and Chris isn't the only one that had that has been through an event like that I mean we did 20 years alone just in Afghanistan then there's Iraq Syria Yemen all these Somalia all these other places in these guys you know men and women that are coming home they don't know how to deal with this [ __ ] and so when you get a guy like that that comes on and he starts to tear up and his emotions you know kind of overcome him on on display in front of millions of people that's not like bitching and whining cuz he got a cut on his finger I mean that's it's not weakness either that is I mean that's a [ __ ] man right there to be able to come up open up like that talk about what he's experiencing and then all the other combat veterans that have come home that have been through a situation like that I mean that's [ __ ] masculinity you know to be able to do that on display in front of millions of people and not worry about being judged and to be able to move forward from it and set an example of somebody who can grow and live a productive life and start a family and be that example I think that a lot of people see you know vulnerability or crying in it of itself is you know powerful and it's an important thing you know it's important part of processing they show and me included I mean a big a big theme I mean it's not like we have a a motto or anything like that but a big a theme is I mean we bring on the the most badass Warriors of this generation of this lifetime the commonality between all of us is you know it's okay not to be okay and it's okay to get some help when you're not okay you don't have to suck it up and and be a [ __ ] tough guy all the time everybody knows man you don't have to prove it anymore and it's so hard it's very I think there's a jux toos in our society right now because again if we go back to the masculinity conversation people are definitely overusing therapy in my opinion especially young people people claim PTSD for ridiculous things they claim they're depressed when they're basically just going through a hard time that's something that Jordan talks a lot about is convoluting depression with just going through a normal challenging part of your life and I'm sure it's difficult to try to be like no I'm not that and I'm not feeding into those you know those weaknesses and the Ridiculousness of what our culture has cultivated but to understand that you still need help I'm sure that that's difficult for them to walk and plus I mean the support for veterans has been abysmal yeah I think a big problem is we have rewarded being a victim and everybody wants to be a victim now I Ed it so hard I Ed it harder than you I can't like a big thing that I hear with jenz is like oh it's impossible I can't start a business I can't buy a house I can't do this I'm going I'm going to therapy my [ __ ] boss was mean to me and it's like man like you've got to instead of taking that all in and victimizing yourself I mean use that as a motivator to get out of whatever the [ __ ] your whatever your hurdles are yeah and and and use that as is a driver I really feel like I've learned so much from you almost as much as I learn at Peterson Academy and Peterson Academy is Jordan Peterson's online university that is open for enrollment right now if you are somebody who loves lifelong learning wants to learn from the brightest professors in the world or if you've ever benefited from Dr Peterson's lectures or his podcast his amazing guests this platform is for you every month Peterson Academy releases four new in-depth 8-hour University level courses taught by world-renowned experts and produced to keep you fully engaged they cover an amazing range of topics from philosophy and history and psychology and Science and business complete with optional testing to further your understanding plus they are continually rolling out new educational features as they grow and there is also a built-in social Community where you can connect and learn alongside like-minded people from around the world so if you are ready to challenge your intellect and expand your horizons and take control of your education and learn as much as I'm learning from Shan Ryan right now it is time to go to Peterson academy.com Brett it is $599 per year or $50 $9 a month to access all 31 8 Hour courses with four new courses a month plus the community with a 7-Day money back guarantee and the best part is for that price you don't have to take out a $60,000 loan to further your education again that is Peterson academy.com tojoin Peterson Academy today as you were saying Sean I interview a lot of super successful people you know the like some of the world's most successful people on my show and everybody I mean you you have to turn yourself into an innovator when you figure out you know well what are you jealous of that's what you want to be so figure out how the [ __ ] to get there map it out and figure out a way to get there I mean even I mean I've had tons of people that come up and they even the employees of mine they're like I can't I'm never going to be able to buy a house and it's like well have you talk to a [ __ ] loan officer y that's the craziest part is people W even take the first step to see if you know something is possible cuz they've just heard it all they've heard all the other victims y you know talk about oh I I can't buy a house it's too expensive oh and people don't want to make themselves uncomfortable like a big thing if we want to talk about like you know the housing market in jenz and houses is they'll talk about like well starter homes I can't afford a start a home everything is $500,000 but it's like you're looking within 15 minutes of the city if you're willing to drive 25 minutes if you're willing to have a further commute willing to live in an area that's not $500 $600,000 you can buy like especially here in Nashville you can buy homes that are you know $250,000 $300,000 it's possible I have friends that have done it but it took for those friends it took a mindset shift of is this a priority of mine and if it is then you have to act like it's a priority and you have to say okay then I'm willing to drive the extra 10 minutes I'm willing to buy the house that has not been newly renovated is not some custom bill that I'm willing to put in the elbow grease because it's priority and if it's not that's fine but don't [ __ ] and moan about it like if you don't want to make those sacrifices then live in the apartment and that's fine and nobody will judge you but don't say it's not possible every time you want to try to find success or if you want something that's hard to get you're going to have to sacrifice something yeah and nobody wants to sacrifice they just want to victimize themselves and our culture rewards it exactly so why would they with any big leap that you take in Life or any risk that you're taking there comes more responsibility there come sacrifices that you're going to make and hopefully there's a greater reward but that discomfort is part of it and I think that jenzie just hasn't had to experience that's also part of the helicopter parenting that I think has but think about this ruined jenzi five years from now when you walk back up here and you won't be here anymore and you're like holy [ __ ] this is my camera setup this was the shipl I put up the night before the inter first interview I saw your Instagram you're were painting the fireplace or something last night like that's [ __ ] cool man that's a story that's overcoming you know adversity and and like it's going to build you into whatever you're going to become which is going to be some something massive excited for it that's I started in my attic you know and I did the same thing I was just using Barnwood that we ripped off a barn and threw it up there put some lighting up had no idea what I was doing and it grew into I mean now you you know where we're at we're out of a garage and then 6 months from now 4 months from now we'll be in a 7,000 squ ft brand new studio that we built from the ground up but yeah it started in my attic with me and my wife and that's it now that room's a playroom for my kids but we go up there and it's like man can you believe like this is where it started yeah you know and it builds a culture and it it's it's just awesome man like when it sucks getting started because you don't have all the resources and you don't have everything that everybody else has but when you build it yourself then you have everything that nobody else has you know you can do it well it's the same way people talk about you I've told you I had the funniest interaction about show in New York where the New York Times came up to me and they were like we love Sean Ryan and I was like this like lib New York Times you know reporter was like oh my gosh we heard that you like Sean Ryan you know Sean Ryan we're such big fans he won't talk to us I'm like obviously he's not going to talk to you but you have their attention and it's like when you talk to these huge Network it's you know you're consistently in the top three you are making it it's crazy to think about you starting in your attic starting with you know friends of yours pulling them on the podcast and you are now having clips of your podcast being played in confirmation hearings you've interviewed JD Vance and Trump it's incredible what you've done you're not just changing the media landscape but you single-handedly are changing the political landscape you're changing conversations about National Security you're doing you know flying all over the world now you changed where were you in Romania Romania causing protests over things you were doing 250,000 people showed up in front of the Romanian Parliament the next day but I mean you know I just just don't let this [ __ ] get to your head and like I said like all the way back coming out of my psychedelic experience I'm just doing what what interests me I'm not letting anything else dictate Drive influence what I do the minute I get a hint of that I'm out you know and like just stay grounded what do you think you know talking about following what interests you I think a lot of jenzy and just young people in general feel I have to be in the rat race I have to do this job and provide for my family and obviously that's a big part of it and a lot of people can't you know change their situation at the drop of a hat but should a driving force be finding that thing that interests you should you prioritize that over something I don't I'd always say prioritize that over something that's safe but for people who feel like they can't do it what would you say try like you have to try you know and you're going to fail and you should fail I mean I failed at a whole bunch of [ __ ] it sounds so cliche because people say this [ __ ] all the time but you cannot chalk all your failures up it's just failures like it's an education yeah like every time you go and you try something and you fail like that's an education that's a learning point you have to be able to self-reflect and get over your ego and all the other [ __ ] that goes along with it but you have to be able to self-reflect and dissect your failures and go okay what did we learn from this why didn't this work why did I fail and then reconstruct it again and and make it better the next time I mean we fail it stuff all the time sometimes I hire the wrong people we've had guest on that I shouldn't have had it's like I said you have to you have to take a chance you have to make sacrifices and you have to be you you can't here's another thing that I see all the [ __ ] time when I started my podcast everybody had the purple curtain behind them you know in the headset and the microphones and all the little trinkets on the desk you know what I mean and I talked about this with Joe when I was on his podcast and I looked at it and I was like we're not doing that I'm not doing that like I have to be me what represents me I like interior design type [ __ ] it's just I like doing it and so I wanted to design my own Studio I wanted to put things in that like meant something to me you know like I wanted that sign everybody that comes on the show signs that vigilance Elite sign now it's like a museum over there but anyways like % you yeah it's 100% me I liked I wanted good camera Aesthetics I wanted a moving shot I want I didn't want equipment in the shot I wanted something totally different than I wanted to call it a show instead of a podcast you know what I mean now everything's a show mhm now everybody has multic cams you know that that look better I had previews for a long time we just cut the previews because we have so many guests coming in thanks to Jeremy my new producer that that we just don't have time to make the previews anymore but I really wanted it to be like a full production that looked really really good and I think also with podcasting I've seen people say you know highly produced great aesthetic that kind of you know multi cam I think people have attempted that but they lack the authenticity they lack it coming from you know them and so they'll Rush that off and say oh it doesn't work you got to have the Joe Rogan set up it's just got to be like you and a folding table and that's what matters yeah and that might be your thing you know what I mean I'm not like I'm not discounting that maybe it is fold up chairs and a fold up table but it has to be you exactly it has be 100% in the fact it has to be you you cannot you cannot try to imitate what other people are doing and try to and get success off that because it's not authentic and I think you know I don't know much about gen Z but from what I've heard gen Z really craves authenticity and so if you're not being authentic you're not [ __ ] going anywhere and it's hard to I don't want to say find authenticity in yourself but you I think it takes a lot of work at least this is what I've experienced we've been setting up this show you have to really figure out what is you and what you want to portray and put online and create because I think it's very easy to go I'll just do a show I'll just do this but you have to get to the core of why am I doing this why do I care why am I having this person on why am I talking about this issue and it forces a lot of self-reflection I feel like I've gotten to know myself better over the last six months of you know getting to this point that I you know even if this was a absolute failure and never went anywhere and nobody ever watched my stuff again and they were like screw you we don't you know like you anymore whatever it is that would be fine because I've learned I've learned so much about this industry I've learned so much about being my own boss but I've more importantly I've learned so much about me and what I want and who I am as a person and as a you know whatever you want to call this personality whatever that that's worth it for me but it takes I think it's harder work than people think yeah it's it's not easy you'll constantly innovate you'll make Mye changes you just and because it's all you you're just constantly trying to be perfecting it what can we do better what can we do better how can we make it look better how can we make it sound better how can we crank them out faster how can we get to the people we want to reach you'll just start solving all those problems one by one by one by one but and it's exciting to be able to have a hand in it who are you going to go after in terms what kind of yeah what kind of interviewees okay the two that I want the most are which we were talking about beforehand Amanda binds so she's a former child actor came out of Nickelodeon she has embroiled in a lot of the Dan Schneider controversy he has an awful reputation in Hollywood when I was you know coming up as a child actor I don't even know the amount of auditions I would get for Untitled Dan Schneider projects and I was never like I'm not from an acting family we're not super I would say Hollywood Savvy and even my mom was like you're not going out for any of those like that guy's a creep we've heard awful things so she was his Protegé she wait you were a childhood actor you didn't know that about me no I didn't yeah what were you in um a bunch of random stuff we started in theater my first professional job actually was singing opera at the Atlanta Symphony Opera no kidding yeah then I did a lot of musical theater and then moved to Los Angeles when I was 10 cuz I got too tall to do Broadway and Theater which is a whole other story they have height requirements if you're under 18 I did commercials I did TV shows mainly like I was on you know the movie Heathers with when on a ryer Paramount did a TV reboot of that that was like my big thing and then it ended up being too politically incorrect so Paramount butchered it and shelved it I did kids TV like Gordon mg life normal straight dude you just told me to grew up in chattanoga I know that's where my dad lived I had a whole other life in La damn so when did you move back here three years ago for daily Wire yeah right on I had to take a massive risk I was 19 years old moved across the country thankfully it was you know Tennessee I still had family here I grew up you know 2 and a half hours away spent Summers here my mom would be in Los Angeles my dad would be there but I was leaving everything I had known for the past 10 years and taking a massive risk and I think that was a major piece of growing up that I needed to do and I had no idea that this would end up being a career or if I even wanted this I was just you know I had nothing else to do I had decided to stop acting and then had dropped out of law school before I even started so I was a waitress writing articles for foundation for economic education and just I was scared you you were going to go from acting to being an attorney what kind of attorney 2A I wanted to do constitutional nice and it was because I I was a liberal arts major us so I was you know an English Lit major and I love writing I love reading I love arguing I cared about trying to make things right and make the world better and I was like well I'm a good writer I'm good at critical thinking I guess that means I should go be an attorney because if you don't know what you're doing with your life and you were an English major or philosophy major you go to law school found of the joke so I took the elsat and did all that and then I realized first day of my orientation I real should not be an attorney I was like this is an awful idea what am I doing I'm an actor I'm like a communicator I'm going to hate this so yeah I took the risk and came here but you learned from it for somebody like me who did start you know on my own from the very beginning I always thought I needed I needed to be over I needed to be over there or I needed to be over there or I needed I needed I needed an agent M or I needed a I needed this I needed that and I could never get anybody to pay attention and then it's like we went from here to now it's like I'm sorry what are you going to do for me oh you're the best M that's what I hear all the time I'm the best we're the best we're the best I've heard about all the agents banging down your door yeah you know and it's like decline sorry dude we're good maybe I'll go I don't know maybe who knows Never Say Never right but I spent a long time wondering what it was like on the other side of the fence having never had the opportunity to get there and then I mean so that you already know so that's like you don't have that distraction and I think that that is a learning experience that's priceless I talk about that in terms of Education a lot too because I was homeschooled for the majority of my life but I went to public school for a year you know or actually a couple years I started in public school and then I went to like a performing arts high school for one year I you know my mom homeschooled me and then I went to a private online school I basically did everything except Catholic school is kind of my joke and um my brothers went to military school the other ones went to like a boarding Christian School like we've basically tried everything and I'm so glad cuz I can speak to all of it and I you know I really found out as a young person what worked for me and I'm grateful that my parents gave me the opportunity to like evaluate that and become self-aware and figure out what was actually right for me so I think I've taken that into adulthood too where it's you know I'm glad I've tried everything I'm glad I've been in both situations I'm glad I know what works for me and what didn't work what's it like going to public school as a as a child actress horrible horrible but okay so here's the thing I how like how much Fame were you experiencing no not none at all I mean I was like zist but the thing is it's like I have people like hate comments and they're like oh you're a fail child actor I was like paying for my own apartment at like 14 years old I emancipated myself at 15 put myself through college you know with acting and I think a lot of people think about Hollywood and they just think about celebrities but the people who make that industry run are people whose names you never know who are doing voiceover like my one of my most lucrative jobs that I had consistently in Hollywood was doing basically like ADR so voiceover for Network TV shows so it's like I still to this day get residual checks from blackish which was that show on ABC cuz I went in for like three episodes it's huge network television so they pay crap ton of money there were a couple of episodes they would have me come in with a room of like 10 other people and there were like there was a big party scene there was a a soccer game and we had to pretend to be at those things like we were just doing voice over so you're like yeah yeah Mike get the goal whatever like that kind of stuff You' go in for like an hour and it's called uh loop like looping so I was in a loop group it's like and that's like you have so many actors that you have you literally will never know who pop in on different TV shows here and there and they make a normal living they're not super wealthy but they skate by in Los Angeles they're able to pay the bills they're the ones who the strikes you know hurt the most yeah I was actively working making good money you know emancipated myself at 15 for a myriad of different reasons but was able to you know prove to the court at 15 you know I can pay for myself I had a part-time job at Trader Joe's to make sure that I'd consistent wow and you thought she'd be a bad attorney huh I oh yeah Trader Joe's is probably like behind this Trader Joe is my second favorite job right on man I loved it so I was actively working I think the weird thing was not fame but it was that it so I was it was for n my nth grade year I was 12 going into my nth grade year which is already I don't know why I did that I made a PowerPoint presentation for my mom and I said I want you to let me go to public school cuz I want to know what I'm missing like I want to know if homeschooling works for me I want to know I want to have part of it was so like psychological on my end I was like I want to know what it's like to be like an American kid in like public school it's going to be great for my acting career too because I'll be able to like play a high schooler and so I made this presentation she was like you know I can't deny it's great let's try it and she's awesome and so we literally moved moved to from La she rented a house in Atlanta Georgia randomly because the best performing arts high school in the country is in Mableton Georgia it's the best magnet uh performs high school and I had a bunch of friends that were going there I applied got in 12 as a freshman so already I was the odd one out but I think the thing that was the hardest was not that I was like the professional actor or any like Fame whatever because I didn't have that but that it was I had already been out in the real world I had you know had jobs I you know had had to deal with my taxes at 12 years old like I was 12 years old realizing I'm being taxed with a representation like I can't vote I had to deal with lawyers and agents and managers I was in meetings with casting directors representing myself and you know I was dealing with directors and producers and I was surrounded by people who were you know 15 to 18 years old who had never even worked a part-time job and that was in college as well my friend group at UCLA this is you know if we want to get into gen Z and never worked a job ever there's like 20-year-olds who were in college had not like they were shocked number one that I was an actor they thought that was kind of cool but that I worked at Trader Joe's throughout they were like why would you why like you can just go to college and not work I was like well some of us our parents aren't paying but also it's like acting isn't consistent you know you might book a job here you might like I'd rather have money all the time plus it's discipline I would wake up at 400 a.

and go work the 5: am. shift at Trader Joe's and then go to college classes afterwards wow wow anyway so the whole thing was weird man I had no idea I know I feel like we just skipped the whole thing I could told you about on your podcast yeah well we'll go into more detail we'll go into more detail but that's why I really want to interview Amanda bin I mean was the darling of Hollywood and they chewed her up and spit her out and she was just left hanging to dry and ended up in a conservator ship she's now out of one she's like right now trying to pieced together her life she was trying to get you know her certification to be a nail artist she's now doing painting like she's finally seeming like she's she's not back to her but in those situations I don't think and it's weird to tell that to you know the guys in your life but you don't ever go back to who you were before you were abused before you experienced btsc I mean I don't think you know this my brother has schizophrenia he will never even if he's on meds even if he heals he'll never be the person he was 10 years ago yeah before he had his first break Amanda bin will never be who Amanda bind was on Nickelodeon at 15 years old that we all knew and loved but nobody's talked to her and people have speculated about her and it's kind of like the Brit I know you want to interview Britney Spears it's like that kind of thing if you have no idea what like goes on in her mind and what she's actually experienced we've gotten bits and pieces thanks to documentaries and people who know her yeah it's it's it's like it's like they're trying to hide it I mean Nickelodeon had them sign ndas upon ndas and non-disparagement and all of this stuff and so and there are very few people who didn't sign yeah and those have been able to speak out and one did sign but then wrote a book where the characters were named different things that was the book I'm glad my mom died was a girl from my Carly Janette mccartie but yeah they they've kept it completely silent and to this day that guy Dan Schneider if you speak about him if you don't say allegedly all of this stuff I mean his legal team will come at you doesn't matter who you are if you're just a random YouTuber and they have the power to do that so it's like imagine if they're doing that to people who are just talking about the story imagine what they did too somebody who people have claimed and speculated yeah was abused so that's my top person that and baron Trump two very Fuller opposites that would be good one that would be a good one so what do you I mean will there be a commonality that's actually something so you were talking about your wife being a partner and all this Alex my husband is very involved you know we have a very tiny team and he's I think the creative genius behind a lot of my best ideas to be honest and so he's and he's a strategist so he's been pushing me on that in terms of you know you need to under and that's kind of what I was talking about of understanding yourself and finding what's authentic is he's kind of been the driving force of you know why are you doing this why do you care so much so he's pushed me on a lot of those questions because I have all these these people that I want to talk to he was like what's the real reason why and I think it's that you have a story that people haven't heard before so it's like with you when I was like oh I should talk to Shan it's because there's so much about your not even your past in you know special ops and Military but it's your journey of getting here your life as a husband and a father that I think people don't get to hear about as much I love being a dad it's awesome and it's hard mhm the balance between especially being an entrepreneur the D the balance between being a a husband a dad and an entrepreneur is really tough how do you make it work you know we talk about this a lot on my show I always ask these Ultra successful people you know how they find the balance nobody has the answer nobody has the answer but you know I've kind of chocked it up to I mean if you can go home and your kids are happy legitimately happy like if you go home and you feel and experience Joy in their lives and you see it in their eyes and the same with my wife you must be doing all right mhm you know but there's always like there's always this tremendous amount of guilt and you know the other thing is like me and my wife have a framed like I don't know 24x 12 maybe picture frame that we nailed to the wall and we just have like all the years stuff that we want to do and things that we want to accomp it's like our goal we do it every January some of the things on there like one is just like don't make anything about money like just don't do it then you become a slave to something I don't know man I don't know what the perfect balance is but I think that's like the most important thing is if you can go home and you can ex not only experience but you see joy and happiness in your kids in your spouse's eyes you're doing all right yeah I mean family is more important than anything which is why I only feed my family meat from good ranchers now guys did you know that over 85% of the grass-fed beef in stores is actually imported and that is because the country of origin labeling law was repealed in 2015 so now meat in our American grocery stores can be packaged here in the US and earn a product of the USA label even if it was born raised and harvested overseas and the other truth is a lot of the meat in our grocery stores are filled with things that you don't want like antibiotics and added hormones and even harmful seed oils but goodranchers.com is changing everything good ranchers meat is born raised and harvested right here in the USA by American ranchers so you know exactly where it comes from it is free from hidden additives no antibiotics ever no added hormones and no seed oils just simple trustworthy ingredients so you can feel good about feeding your 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for an entire year plus you will get $25 off when you use my code Brett at checkout that is high quality clean protein in every order delivered to your door for free for an entire year plus $25 off it has never been easier to prioritize your family's health and spend more time where it matters together around the table visit goodranchers.com today and don't forget to use my code Brett to claim your free meat and $25 off all right back to you Sean where I was going with the don't make things about money thing is if you start making everything about money you'll be on the road all the time like one of the things I learn with the agent is like I want to be a businessman yeah I want to be I want of course I want to be wealthy and make a lot of money who doesn't right but the one thing that I like with the agents and everything is I had to be everything I have to go on speaking to her I have to write a book I have to do the podcast I have to do more podcasts I have to and it's like you're basically starving my kids of a [ __ ] father and you're starving my wife of a hus husband all for money which there won't even be any time to spend the [ __ ] money because you guys have sold me out every as every minute of my life would have been sold out and so that's that's why I got rid of all of them and I went another Direction and I didn't want anybody in the entertainment business whatever and but I want to build other verticals that don't involve me all the time like I just I'm not going to do it man like yeah I probably could be making 10 times the [ __ ] money I'm making right now but I'm not going to do it because my kid won't have a dad and my daughter won't have a dad and my wife won't have a husband I mean we all know how that story ends up then you have kids with no [ __ ] masculinity in their life and they turn out to be a disaster and I'm just not willing to to make that trade I don't know where I was going with this so know it's a good rant what is your the key to your relationship with your wife do you think communication and openness I bounce everything off my wife all every business decision every person I'm going to hire I mean everything she's a partner truly yep she's a partner I mean even though she's not you know she's not at the beginning like I couldn't have done it without her she was literally we taught ourselves how to run the cameras now you know she's a she's the mom and and she does a phenomenal job but it's just always checking yourself you know and and being open and dropping my ego and when she tells me something like you're working too much you're you're you're working too much and then you come home like this is the latest one and this was probably a month ago and it made me feel like [ __ ] but she was right you know she's like you're working too much I know you know you've tripled your team since October but you're gone all the time you're you're you're constantly at work you're trying to get things going and you come home late at night then you want to talk to me about work and my son will be spouting off trying to get my attention and I'll immediately discipline him and she's like in his eyes it's like who the [ __ ] is this guy he comes home hasn't been home all day comes home doesn't want to hang out with me he's talking to Mom I want his attention and then he disciplines me immediately she's like you really you have to like reassess and just love love love him that [ __ ] hits you know what I mean but he have to you just have to be willing to like have those deep discussions and realize like oh man I've been [ __ ] up it's humbling to have somebody who knows you better than yourself in a lot of ways and knows what you can be and what you could be and knows you at you're happiest and it's like it's not this is not it right now and I think at times when I've been so clouded and I'm just in it and I'm completely you know bogged down by everything else having somebody who's pulling back the curtain and saying this is not sustainable in this life yeah you you have to be willing to listen to the stuff that you don't want to hear yeah you know and that's tough to do and you know I think the other thing is like you just you have to make time I mean you have to make time you have to be able to separate from all of this which is going to be hard for you to do cuz it's a it's here you know what I mean but you have to make the time to like be his wife and I have to make the time to be my wife's husband and to shut it down and whatever that takes we go on trips you know another thing like when when you have kids like and I don't say this in a bad way but you lose who you were me and my wife like we have to have somebody come in and watch the kids every couple months even if it's just a weekend you know like even if like we just went to the Four Seasons in Nashville and just didn't leave the room and did room service and had a great time but um but uh you just you have to it just takes that so that you can so we can get back to being Shawn and Katie you know even if it's just for 408 hours even it's she just for 24 hours but like it's a great recharge it freshens you up it makes you a better dad better wife a better a better husband a better dad a better mom better wife because you know you're you're refreshed I think that's another key component is just communication being open listening to the [ __ ] you don't want to listen that you don't really want to hear and you know that connection of who you were before kids before before entrepreneurship like who you fell in love with I want to ask one more question that kind of ties in with that and I'll let you go I have so many young people who watch the show and I think one of the biggest issues with my generation is obviously dating we weren't taught how to date like you know my I always joke that like my first dating experience was on Snapchat like I I was never asked out in person I was always you know people slid into my DMs or we you know we downloaded Tinder and hinge that was the first way that we dated so there's a lot of like societal issues in that regard but I think people are just struggling and I think a lot of people also don't know what to look for or even how to present themselves but specifically for young men when you're dating with intention and you're looking for the person that you want to marry I guess what would you advise young men look for and women I think because this can also help the women too yeah manam what would I look for I mean you obviously have to be attracted you know that's it's just not going to work if you're not but it doesn't mean you have to get the centerfold Playmate you know and I think so many that's just ego and I think so many men like that [ __ ] wears off man it does like I don't care who you are it wears off eventually and you're just going to want more and more and more and more and so kind of what I'm getting at is is just one like when you go out and you're meeting people other like like you have to be yourself like you have to be yourself to see how you actually connect with the other person because if you're not if you're being somebody else to try to impress them then you're building yourself into a [ __ ] character and you're going to have to be that character for the rest of your life which is exhausting it's like imprisoning yourself right at the very beginning and so you just have to be yourself and see how you connect with that other person and if you don't connect I you know I see a lot of young people doing too is they try to force it like oh I can make this work if doesn't [ __ ] work and there's like not the connection if you can't be yourself that's not who you want to be with man it's just it's not there has to be a natural human connection and if it doesn't you know like quit trying to force it if there's not a connection that's okay move on to the next one you why waste the energy exactly too many people try to force it and it just never works out connection first yep I I think the theme of you is being 100% yourself which is a testament to you I think it's the reason why you've blown up in the way you have the reason why your marriage is strong well thank you it's a good thing thank you for coming on the show I appreciate it my pleasure best of luck I'm excited for you thank you I'm Richard over the mic thank you